Emmons vs Shobud Value

Dan Murphy · From: Missouri, USA

Hi guys Ive been looking at all the prices on used Emmons vs ShoBud. First let me say Im not in any way trying to be negitive here or bias. I dont understand why a 30 yr old Emmons and a 30 yr old Bud are so far apart in resale value.I know the first thing I will hear is Emmons has <that> So does ShoBud and Mullen and Zum.I have owned many vintage instruments in my years, when you have a guitar that has the history that ShoBud has,and is no longer made ,you have a guitar that should be worth more than one thats still in operation.Why spend 3500 on a 30 yr old guitar , when you can have a new one with a warranty for the same price.I just sold my 1970 d10 8-5 Bud for 1500 and shipping, when I should have been able to get 2400 instead. Confused

This is just my 2$ worth .I also understand that it has alot to do with Demand. Oh Well

Ron ! · Posted 18 Dec 2008 12:17 am

Weird but true Dan.Some like the old Emmons P/P sound and some prefer the Sho-Bud sound.I personally like both a lot if played by a good player.

There are many good players around that are known.....even more good players that are not known.

I think that it all comes down to which sound a player wants to strive for.Nowadays most people strive for that old P/P tone that seems to be coming back rapidly.

Thanks to Dicky Overbey, Randy Rheinhardt(excuse my spelling) and a lot of other P/P players more people fall back in love with the old P/P tone.
So when you say that it has something to do with demand you are right on the money.

There have been build many P/P guitars and even more Sho-Bud guitars so I don't think we have seen the end of this yet.

I think that the more people are listening to the older records the more P/P guitars will be raised in price.
Better get yours while you still can.They will go up in value rapidly.

Ron

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

For me it's the p/p sound that's been the most copied as far as I can see. I remember going to the Opry in 86 with Pete Mitchell who then was working with Justin Tubb and there were three Sho-Bud guitars there and all the rest were Emmons and I'd say most were the p/p's. That said it all to me and that's when I bought my first Emmons p/p. I sold my last Sho-Bud about 3-4 years ago and I own my last Emmons p/p now. If I ever sell this one I doubt I ever buy another because they're too expensive to work on. About every other all pull guitar out there these days are good guitars so it comes down to weight and price now.

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

If you compare Sho~Buds and Emmons guitars that were built 30 years ago, ie. 1978, Emmons guitars are built of better quality materials, check out the undercarriage, and seem to be put together with more attention to detail. That's my impression at least.
I don't think there were as many Emmons made as there were Sho~Buds, so the supply and demand thing comes into effect.

Charles Curtis · Posted 18 Dec 2008 5:53 am

I like the tone of the Emmons, especially the PP psg. I can't help but believe that Ron Jr was trained by Ron Sr, and whatever special attention is given to the production of the psg or selection of wood for the chassis or whatever he does with his hands makes me happy. If I was buying a new psg PP, I would ask Ron Jr to build it for me despite the waiting time. I have seen some, IMO terrific buys here on the Forum regarding Emmons psg.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Dan,
I think the reason you didn't get the money you thought your Sho~Bud was worth has nothing to do with whether is was a Sho~Bud or an Emmons.

Right now the market value for any brand of steel guitar is down due to the present condition of the economy.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

there were a lot more Sho Buds built that Emmonses

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Sho~Buds are and always were a crapshoot.

Shot, bless his heart, had a lot of people he was helping out. He helped them out according to legend by letting them build guitars and paying them.

According to the evidence, some of them probably shouldn't have been putting them together....

Overall, I can't think of a single year that there wasn't a "consistency" problem, besides maybe the ProIII years.

They are my favorites too.

I can't speak from having any experiences with owning an Emmons, but they've always seemed to be build with more precision, and good quality control.

I still like Sho~Buds.

Smile

EJL

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

I like them both also, but remember, there were many thousands of Sho-Buds made compared to Emmons guitars. About 25 to one!

Bobbe

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Once again Eric is correct. Sho-Bud mechanics were probably THE most inconsistent steel guitar mechanics of their time. Quality consistencey of build was also not consistent. This is why Duanne Marrs designed a retrofit for old Sho-Buds. Also why John Coop is doing a booming (well deserved) business in quality after market parts for Sho-Buds. Couple that with the fact as Bobbe just said that they were mass produced and that Emmons mechanics and build were superior in consistency and you have the price difference. Anyone who thinks that their Sho-Bud is worth gold is kidding themselves. Most all used Sho-Buds need hundreds of dollars of shop rework to bring them up to modern expectations. You can buy a brand new Show-Pro from Jeff Surratt now that has better reliability mechanicaly than the old Sho-Buds and has the same look. Emmons push/pulls once they are set up right remain that way for a long time and play great. They are a more reliable guitar mechanicaly. Bobbe, please feel free to comment. This is just the way I see it having owned both.

Shorty Smith · From: Columbus, Georgia, USA

I bought my Emmons P/P in 1973 and I been playing it regular, 2 to 3 night a week for over 20 year and it plays just as good today as it did 30 years ago, very dependable and reliable. Proper maintenace and care, this guitar will last a lifetime, wow I love my Emmons, Shorty

Dan Murphy · From: Missouri, USA

Thanks Everyone for your input well I guess I will start saveing for a P/P. Oh Well

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

With all the negative input on SHO~BUDS, I own 3. Never from a showroom floor... but just coming across them. I love them all. Look and sound great. Even so... I've heard old push-pulls sound like crap, and old SHO~BUDS sound like crap. The guy behind the picks is where the magic is. If I were to own a PP, I'd like the one that Curry Costner has, with his tone and fell to go with it. SHO~BUD??? Well, Ralph Mooney sounded pretty darn good on them. Back in the old days, the LDG logo went on a SHO~BUD.

Tom Quinn · Posted 18 Dec 2008 5:15 pm

Lloyd Green always sounded pretty good to me. Truth is that there are fads. Right now P/P Emmons are hot, but I have a Pro II that sounds every bit as good, and looks great to boot.

Wen you have a good Bud, you have something special. Uh, that might not sound right...

Dan Murphy · From: Missouri, USA

I never had any mechical issues with my Bud and I baught it used 18 yrs ago.I played it at the Houston Astrodome in 2006 when I worked with Rich McCready.The sound guy made a point to come over at sound check and told me that I had a GREAT Tone !! Cool

I was useing 2 500s at the time. He said he didnt even have to EQ my channel., just ran it flat Cool

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Thanks to Bobbe for that info. I wasn't aware that there were that many more SBs.

Actually thinking about it the "rack and barrel" years were pretty consistent, and the ProII-Early ProIII years were pretty much standard. Then they tried to "shorten" them, and it all got lost.

I guess I've always thought of Emmonses as being more precisely and uniformly built.

I've never cared for the tone myself, probably more to the pickups than anything. and even the Marrs Retrofit I currently play and LOVE has 16k pickups with extended polepieces on the smaller wound strings.

Another thing I didn't care for about Sho~BUds was the rows of screws running with the grain of the aprons holding the stops. The Marrs Retrofit replaced them with a thin angle plate system I like a lot more.

I've only owned two steels. Each of them, the first week I had them started getting customized.

The best steel I've seen in recent years was at the latest SG "convention". It was a "Miller". Looked like a bunch of SHo~Bud type bell cranks and swivels, and a LOT beefier hardware, and a "push pull" setup that was like the Permanant Design. Heck of a guitar.

I do think that Emmonses are the longest running and most consistent.

I just prefer something about Sho~Bud.

It's POSSIBLE that Jimmy Day, Lloyd Green, or god knows who actually tried their hand at welding doing some of those classic Sho~BudBirdshit welds you'll commonly find underneath them on the levers....

Smile

EJL

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

What's not to like about this one?

David Pinkston · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA

That's a beautiful guitar....

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

David,
Thank you. It really is an outstanding instrument.
I picked it up from a fellow Forumite a while ago. Very Happy

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Donny,

It's always good to hear from you. After reading this thread a few times, I actually considered starting a new thread about what you mention. Each and every PSG does have its little qurkey issues. I just wasn't sure if it would be well received. Though I do love my 76 Sho~Bud LDG, I did have some issues:

String #2 never went to a full note drop with RKR. Sonny Purdum (Frederick County GREAT picker) fixed it years ago by grinding the finger. The pot metal that secured the knee lever broke. Bobby Seymore has some good replacements. These problems were fixed, and falls into the negative replies about the Sho~Bud... BUT... I love the tone of those older Sho~Buds.

Even those that absolutely love their ax... are there any issues anyone wants to share. I think it would be interesting to see what kind of stuff falls thru the cracks on any brand made on any year.

PS: You and I are going to meet one of these days. We live to close to each other. Every time your name pops up, your reputation grows.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

Honestly Donny, I appreciate your frankness and honesty- I can't stand it when people don't give straight-forward answers, whether I agree or not!!! Very Happy

Anyways, back on topic- I would go with a 'Bud, as to me they seem to have fewer set-up shortcomings as opposed to the PP system. Then again, quality control was not as good... hmm Confused

Edit: 'sand' = 'stand'!
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James Collett

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I love my LDG, but only have one thing I do not like. When a string does break, the little ball, and about a inch of string is hard to get out of the changer. Even turning it upside down, and shaking it. Other than that, because I can no longer bend my left ankle to the left far enough to clear the B pedal, with the LKL, I had to move both LK's 2 inches to the left. When I went to Broadway Ave. in Nashville, and looked at Sho-Bud, and Emmons, I chose the Bud. Just personal preference. That was way back when.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

My days in the Boy Scouts taught me to always be prepared.....

Kinda like owning two Harleys...... Laughing

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Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else

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