A question re: guitar pick-ups.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Some may have read elsewhere on the Forum of my delight with my new 'Thin Skin' "'62" reissue Telecaster. I'm not clear about why it sounds as good as it does, but the pick-ups have to be at least a part of the equation.

Here's my dilemma. I've been playing - and enjoying - my G&L Asat Classic for several years, but this new Tele has knocked it for six in terms of brightness and 'edge'. The G&L, however, does have the very-excellent Glaser 'B-bender' fitted, so it's not without reluctance that I've shelved the Asat for the present. Getting Glaser to commit to fitting a bender to my new guitar is going to be difficult - he's apparently booked solid for months.

So.....

If I can find out what p/ups are in my Telecaster, what are the chances - provided I can get a pair - of them transforming the G&L in any way? I realise that it's made of different woods, and it is appreciably heavier than the Tele (maybe as much as 2lbs), but I find its tone way too dull by comparison - if new pick-ups would make enough difference, I'd seriously consider the expense of such a project.

I'm not totally 'married' to the B-bender, but I do love to play that style sometimes, and do so enjoy the options it gives me.

Going on a gig without one is a bit like golf without a sand-wedge....

Thanks for any help you can give.

Here's the G&L in question - in case anyone knows what pick-ups IT has...

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

I believe replacing the thick modern 6-saddle bridge with a thinner vintage style bridge, when possible, often will have as much effect on bringing out the 'twang' as changing pickups.

I don't know if vintage style replacement bridges fits a G&L, but if they do I'd definitely try that before venturing into the (often) endless search for the 'perfect' pickups....
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Just bumping this to the top in case anyone else has some thoughts on this problem.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

Looking at the wood on the ASAT, it looks like swamp ash which is heavy and darkens the tone. If the Tele is a thin-line, you are never going to get the ASAT to sound as bright. I have three Tele's, all with identical pickups, and the swamp ash body is the darkest. The alder is in the middle. The thin-line alder-with-flame-maple-cap is very bright. The brightness is a big function of the lightness of the body. The only way you could get the ASAT to sound that bright would be to gut out the wood and cap it.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso

Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Michael - thanks.

Just to clarify, though, my Tele is not a Thinline, but a 'Thin Skin' - that's a new Custom Shop guitar with an alder body and a light coat of nitro-cellulose (hence the name).

Your point about swamp ash is well-taken, however.

Here's my new Telecaster:

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Why not get an Evans Pullstring mounted in your Tele? Glaser is *always* booked solid for months, and the Pullstring is IMO a more versatile unit, with variable spring tension and throw length. You should be able to get a pretty quick turnaround and then you'd have a quality ender is a guitar you prefer tonewise. I agree with other opinions - an ASAT just doesn't quite go tonally where some of the Tele models do - not a bad thing as they have their own sound....but duplicating other sounds is not always in the cards.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

FYI Swamp Ash is light, not heavy... that's why it is favored for solidbody guitars over other varieties of ash, plus it has excellent tone, some of the best Fenders were made of it... my swamp ash '54 Tele was very light....it's the other varieties such as common white ash are usually heavy.

I've been experimenting with PUs, putting different PUs in different guitars, changing PU parts, adding & removing windings, etc. for about 35 years, and one thing I've learned is that the voice of a guitar is in the guitar, not the PU,s, changing PU's is like a singer changing mics.... some sound a little different than others but you still have the same voice.

Personally I don't believe you can make 2 guitars sound the same if they're made of different woods.

I had 2 Ibanez guitars, which I bought new, same exact model and year, both had alder bodies and maple necks, set-up exactly the same, only the color was different and even they didn't sound the same, one was very bright and the other was mellow.

Getting two guitars of the same model that sound the same is not that easy, let alone two of different makes, models, different wood, different bridges, etc. Sorry but I don't think changing PUs is going to do it for you. You can try but I wouldn't expect it...you never really know for sure unless you try, but my own opinion is it's not likely.

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 29 Dec 2008 2:10 am

Swamp ash can be very heavy. I had an early 70's strat that must have weighed 12 lbs.
It can also be extremely light. I have an ash tele that weighs about 6.25 lbs and a similar strat that's about 7 lbs. I find the light ash to be very bright sounding.
A brass, three piece intonated bridge will brighten it up a bit too.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

If it was that heavy it most likely wasn't SWAMP Ash. Too many people are thinking any Ash guitar body is Swamp Ash. Not all Ash is Swamp Ash. Especially not the Fenders from the '70's which typically weighed a ton.

From the Warmoth site:

Ash (Fraxinus americana):
We have two very different types of Ash: Northern Hard Ash and Swamp Ash (Southern Soft Ash).

Northern Hard Ash is very hard, heavy and dense. A Strat® body will normally weigh 5 lbs. and up. Its density contributes to a bright tone and a long sustain which makes it very popular. Its color is creamy, but it also tends to have heartwood featuring pink to brown tints. The grain pores are open and it takes a lot of finish to fill them up.

Swamp Ash is a prized wood for many reasons. It is a fairly light weight wood which makes it easily distinguishable from Hard Ash. A Strat® body will normally weigh under 5 lbs. Many of the 50's Fenders were made of Swamp Ash. The grain is open and the color is creamy. This wood is a very nice choice for clear finishes. Swamp Ash is our second most popular wood. It is a very musical wood offering a very nice balance of brightness and warmth with a lot of "pop".

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Roger,

I've tried just about every kind of pickups for my tele (including original 1953 and 1963 pickups) and these Kinman Broadcaster pickups are the best. They're not cheap but they are incredible. They have a patented humbucking design that makes them sound like single coils but with no hum. I also use Kinman's in my strat too.

BTW, Brad Paisley uses the Broadcaster lead pickup in his Tele's.

Here's a link... http://www.kinman.com/Shop/tele.htm

Here's the reviews on Harmony-Central http://tinyurl.com/9stppc

If you don't want to spend that many bucks and you have time to wait, put in a search on eBay for "Kinman". Save it and they will send you an email every time one is listed. You can save a lot of bucks that way.

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

I've been real pleased with the Seymour Duncan Antiquity series Tele pickups. There's a chance that they could have more of that brightness you want. Looking at your picture, the ASAT pickups seem to have larger pole pieces, which will change the tone.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso

Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, everyone, for the advice various suggestions.

Jim:
I am still considering the Evans, but I only hesitate because one of the things I like about the Glaser 'pull' is the minimal routing of the guitar's body - his device does, by the way, have adjustable tension, 'though not the 'throw'. I've only had a vague notion of their delivery time, but I've yet to speak to Joe G. himself - I may get further in a one-on-one conversation.

I've always realised how much warmer the G&L is than a typical Telecaster - I'd just like to see if I could get it to sound a little brighter with a pick-up change. Of course the guitar - and the woods - have their own characteristics and, as I've said, there are tonal qualities to admire in the G&L ASAT.

On reflection, it isn't quite the brightness that's lacking, but the volume as I play farther up the neck on the high strings. It loses much of its punch, causing me to set to volume too high, and to have to hold back when playing the lower strings. My new Telecaster has amazing output all the way up the neck, even to the highest fret on the first string - it was only playing this new Tele that made me realise how I'd compromised with the G&L.

Once again, thanks to all who have taken the trouble to reply to my question.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, everyone, for the advice various suggestions.

Jim:
I am still considering the Evans, but I only hesitate because one of the things I like about the Glaser 'pull' is the minimal routing of the guitar's body - his device does, by the way, have adjustable tension, 'though not the 'throw'. I've only had a vague notion of their delivery time, but I've yet to speak to Joe G. himself - I may get further in a one-on-one conversation.

I've always realised how much warmer the G&L is than a typical Telecaster - I'd just like to see if I could get it to sound a little brighter with a pick-up change. Of course the guitar - and the woods - have their own characteristics and, as I've said, there are tonal qualities to admire in the G&L ASAT.

On reflection, it isn't quite the brightness that's lacking, but the volume as I play farther up the neck on the high strings. It loses much of its punch, causing me to set the volume too high, and to have to hold back when playing the lower strings. My new Telecaster has amazing output all the way up the neck, even to the highest fret on the first string - it was only playing this new Tele that made me realise how I'd compromised with the G&L.

Once again, thanks to all who have taken the trouble to reply to my question.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Roger: I am not sure, but I believe that the pickups in the G&L have adjustable pole pieces and I would guess that the magnet is under the coil.

Replacing the pickups with pickups which actually have rod magnets at the center of the coils should brighten the guitar up compared to pickups with a separate magnet and pole pieces. I'm sure you can find out from Fender which pickups are installed in your Tele (unless it was modified before you got it). Also Seymour Duncan makes a great variety of Tele pickups which fit this description, and they have a nice exchange policy if you are not happy and want to try different pickups. No slag on other pickup makers. Lindy Fralin and Jason Lollar both make great pickups, I understand.

I agree that changing the bridge on the ASAT to the stamped steel type might brighten the sound, but I think the mounting screw holes for the original bridge would not be covered by the vintage style bridge.

I don't agree with the comment about brass saddles sounding brighter, my experience is that they sound a lot warmer than steel saddles in any given Tele.

As far as body wood is concerned I like swamp ash for Teles, it has a great "pop" to the sound. I have less experience with alder teles, I only have one of alder, but I'm sure they can sound pretty bright too with the right pickups.

I hope these thoughts help.

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

If you're handy with a soldering iron, what I would do is pop out the bridge pickup from the "thin skin" and stick it in the ASAT, since the mounting hole positions look the same. It would involve removing or loosening the bridge hold-down screws, removing screws from pickup, and unsoldering the two wires of each pickup from the selector switch. That way you would be able to verify quickly how much is pickup and how much is wood. That should be a fairly easy procedure.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso

Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

our guitar player swears by Fralins.. he put them in his ASAT, Music Man, Telly w/ bender, & Strat... they sound great with all his amps..AC30, Super Reverb, Orange, Mesa ..

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: