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Topic: Speed Picking ??? |
Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 7:21 am |
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Is it necessary to become a good player.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
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Now pass the gravy. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 7:35 am Re: Speed Picking ???
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| Bill Dobkins wrote: |
| Is it necessary to become a good player. |
Yes, but that has nothing to do with Speed Pickin' !
I guess the answer is to become a well rounded player it would be good to bring some Speed Pickin to the table, but it is not necessary as a rule. EX: Rocky Top, should you Speed Pick over the chords or just play the Melody ? Both are more than acceptable.
Now on the other hand if you are just playing in the "Way To Survive" mode for the past few years that may put you behind the curve on the bandstand. Be open minded, pick up the pace, stretch, play out of the box, play the song and what the song calls for, it may not necessarily make you a great player but certainly a different more rounded player.
go for it I say..
tp |
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Jack Dougherty
From:
Spring Hill, Florida, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 7:45 am
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Bill...
My first answer would be no. I have seen and heard many players in the "Ballad" and "Shuffle" mode that just knocked me out. On the other hand one might say that a little speed gives you more versatility. Like asking, does being a race car driver make you a better driver? It depends on your perspective. Speed may be a part of the equation but for my money the soul of the player is what makes it for me. That's the mystery of the steel. It's all in the hands of the player.
JD
_________________
There is no such thing as too many steels!!
Emmons P/P 8/7 Strings....whatever I have.....Picks..mixed...Bars...one of four..but I like the Bullet Bar
Walker Stereo Steel Amp
TC M1 XL
Peavey Nashville 400. Fox Mod
Various sundries and toys..
Last edited by Jack Dougherty on 21 Nov 2008 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 8:46 am Everyone has to have a pedal steel goal, here's mine!!
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My goal: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8EyELZVoc
Is it necessary, No. Do I wish I could do it, Yes. But not in Faded Love.
DS
Last edited by Dick Sexton on 21 Nov 2008 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 8:53 am Re: Speed Picking ???
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| Bill Dobkins wrote: |
| (speed picking) Is it necessary to become a good player. |
Learn to be a good player first, and then worry about speed picking.
Too many players try it the other way around.  |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 10:07 am
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A good player can play a solo or fill in any feel or any tempo that the song dictates. Speed picking is not a particularly meaningful term. In some circles it is just shorthand for phrases (licks if you prefer) that you can play very fast. They should be designed to be easy to play because nothing that you're going to play fast can be too tricky to pull off. You should develop and practice phrases that you can string together and play as fast as necessary. If you don't know how to do that yourself, see material by Joe Wright, Jeff Newman, and Paul Franklin. There's more than enough by those three guys to keep you busy a lifetime.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 12:54 pm
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It was Jimmy Day or another well known player that was heard to say...."I wish I could play fast, then I wouldn't"...........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Frank Sprague
From:
Custer , Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 1:09 pm Speed Picking???
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Necessary? no - Impressive? yes, but only for a song or two. . . I saw Alvin Lee (Ten Years After)on the Eric Clapton special a while back , he can still lay it down , but it gets to be too much , too quick . . . just my opinion , but I'm just a new recruit . . .
_________________
The only things in life I truly hate - fleas , fruit flies , and building furniture |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 1:45 pm
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| listening to the clip dick posted, i couldn't tell what tune was being played. reminded me of bruce bouton with ricky skaggs back when..but bruce's application to whatever tune was tastier and went somewhere to support the song. it's neat to be able to exercise 'continual' picking, but it should incorporate some artistic bent to it! |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 2:21 pm
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| Speed picking,speed picking!!! This subject has been around since I first started playing steel. I can remember people judging other players by how fast they could play. All in all, it means really nothing to me. A good steel player, who, can play in tune, tastefully, gets more attention from me. Anybody with a decent knowledge of the neck and knows scales can speed pick. Does it make him a great picker? I don't think so. If all I stated above can be done, then, the steel picker can be considered to be a consummate all around picker. One aspect certainly complements the other, but, tastefully in tune should be a pre-requisite. Speed is not a requisite. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 5:22 pm
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| Jerry Hayes wrote: |
| It was Jimmy Day or another well known player that was heard to say...."I wish I could play fast, then I wouldn't"...........JH in Va. |
Jimmy wasn't the first player who put down those who could do what he could not. Nor will he be the last.  |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 6:32 pm
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| Quote: |
| Is it necessary to become a good player. (?) |
"Working on speed picking", rather than "Speed picking" I'd say is necessary to become a 'good player'.
Or, working on a new excuse for not being able to... not may of which many of us older steel players haven't heard or used..
EJL |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 6:38 pm
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It's important to be versatile. Speed picking is an important tool, like any pedal, knee lever, or effect. It's important to use the right tools for the right job.
I think smooth is much more critical than fast, but when fast is what is called for, it's good to be able to play fast. |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2008 7:29 pm Speedpicking
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| Speed Picking is very necessary..look what it did in the Song "Sleepwalk"...yep, if you want a million seller, you should spend all your time on speedpicking...LOL...All joking aside, I wish I could study under Zane King for about two weeks straight..that guy is just so great. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 4:43 am Re: Everyone has to have a pedal steel goal, here's mine!!
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Sorry - that playing did absolutely nothing for me whatsoever. Not even technically good. If speed picking has to be done at least it should be clean. Messrs Franklin, White, Johnson, Jernigan and Smith are all masters of speed picking where it doesn't end up as a mess of notes.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 5:15 am Re: Everyone has to have a pedal steel goal, here's mine!!
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How about this one: http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=NkCOJb-Jss8
| Ken Byng wrote: |
Sorry - that playing did absolutely nothing for me whatsoever. Not even technically good. If speed picking has to be done at least it should be clean. Messrs Franklin, White, Johnson, Jernigan and Smith are all masters of speed picking where it doesn't end up as a mess of notes. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 8:09 am
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I'm with Ken on this - there's something inherently unmusical about such excess on pedal steel. Very few can do it and make music at the same time.
The great ones - Ken's list will serve here - have a natural body-clock that always dominates.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 10:00 am
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speed pickin's like that train
if you wanna get movin & goin places, you gotta get on board
when it leaves the station it's starts off slow
builds up steam & momentum
then it hauls on down the line & up the grades
gotta slow back down tho to pull into the station
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 23 Nov 2008 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 11:04 am
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I've always been able to "speed pick" well enough to take a ride on "Rocky Top" or some other uptempo tune but that's not really where it is IMHO! I've lost count on the times that I blew it on "Together Again" or a like tune. My worst enemy in steel playing is left hand vibrato. On a rare occasion I can get it going but it's usually only fair! I'd give up any speed I had to be able to express myself in a slow ballad the way John Hughey or Buddy Emmons does. Speed is just another tool in an arsenal that's not really used all that much. I'd give my left "---" to have a left hand like one of those guys!....JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Charles Curtis
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 2:11 pm
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| IMO, the pastmaster of speedpicking was Julian Tharpe, and it took way too long to get him in the SGHOF. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 3:16 pm
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| actually the standard was set by hal and weldon when the term was coined...then paul recorded 'nervous breakdown' and ruined everyone's chances of keeping up! ...and in reality, the alltime master, creator, and unsung hero of speed picking is doug jernigan, who doesn't probably even realize how superior he has always been to everyone! |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 22 Nov 2008 5:39 pm
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| IMO...most of the speed picking you hear today is mainly just a bunch of quick notes and its done way too fast. Paul Franklin is one of them who sounds like he is competing with other musicians to see who can play the fastest. Playing too fast interferes with the melody and you can't makeout what song is being played. Good sounding speed picking is simply using that second string drop and half drop along with a good palm blocking method...the best example of that in my book is done by Russ Hicks. |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 23 Nov 2008 8:08 am
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| The classic sound created by the pedal steel guitar is what identifies it and is what drew me to wanting to learn how to play(not that I have succeeded in doing so as of yet). The art of blocking in my opinion is palm blocking not pick blocking. For an example...Weldon Myric and Stu Basore were the two main ones that I listened closely to back in the seventies...their style was generally called a melodic style because it was like the sound of a good fiddle playing all the notes of the melody. Weldon and Stu were mainly the ones doing pick blocking and Hal Rugg and Russ Hicks focused mainly on palm blocking. Here is a link for a song clip with Russ Hicks on a song called New River Gorge. http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/1975.html Now that is an example of clean down to earth speed picking the way a pedal steel sounds like. No offense towards anyone's style of playing steel but IMO palm blocking is the way to speed pick. |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 23 Nov 2008 8:40 am
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It's true -- Weldon was pick blocking in the late 70s.
Ralph Mooney also sounds like he pick blocks -- and has for ages -- I've never watched him up close but his style sounds pick blocked to me.
Anybody know?
Look at the "Manual of Style" book Winnie Winston edited. It was the first explanation of HOW to pick block I'd ever seen -- by Weldon Myrick.
Sometimes I wonder if some of the folks who dis speedpicking are ones who just can't do it. 
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 23 Nov 2008 9:03 am
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For the record, Larry - I wasn't 'dissing' speed-picking (in case you meant me!!!) . I was denigrating the examples in the 'links' at the top of this thread.
I, too, was initially drawn to pedal steel by those wonderful up-tempo passages on 'Welephant Walk' (Weldon) as well as Russ Hicks' 'Two Mile Pike' (Barefoot Jerry'). Jay Dee Maness was another who stunned me back then. Those guys made music. Some of what I hear, though, is fudged and poorly executed, and the results are, I'm afraid, unmusical. Good 'time' is always the essence.
By the way.....
I tuned in to the Opry on my way home from the gig last night - just in time to hear a gospel tune from the Whites with an AMAZING 'ride' from Tommy White!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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