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Topic: U-12 Players - What string gauges do you use? |
Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 5:13 am |
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I've seen different gauges on string sets. Just wondering what you like.
Thanks |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 5:24 am
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This is what I use on my Mullen U-12. I get them from b0b:
Jagwire Stainless U-12 E9/B6
.012 .015 .011 .014 .017 .020 .026 .030 .036 .042 .054 .068
On #12 I really prefer an .070; however, the .068 works fine.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 7:49 am
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stainless -- most any brand works for me -- SIT or GeorgeL are probably my favorite
013 015 011 014 018 022 026w 030w 038w 042w 052w 070w
I have also use 058w and 079cw for the bottom two
That combo sounds great but the 79 is hard to get over the rollpin on most of my guitars. Also, unless the rollers are gauged correctly for those really big strings playing at the 1st or 2nd fret requires a lot of bar pressure.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 10:23 am 20p vs. 22p
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| Tha main difference I'm seeing is 20p vs. 22p on the 6th. Is there any difference in tone or breakage in your experiences? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 10:26 am
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The 020 doesn't sound quite as good to me. Breakage is certainly not an issue for either gauge -- never broken a plain sixth in 30 years. The 022 is very slightly more temp sensitive and may show a hair more cab drop. The bigger the string the more it changes on heating/cooling.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 6:46 pm
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013 015 011 014 017 020p 026w 030w 038w 042w 054w 070w
I also like GHS or GeorgeL stainless. I'd prefer heavier strings on the bottom two - they can get floppy - but I agree about needing pretty extreme bar pressure. |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 5:52 am Here they are!!
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To get my ol MSA to do what I want it to, I use these George 'L' Stainless String:
1. F# .011 1/2
2. Eb .017
3. G# .012
4. E .015
5. B .018plain
6. G# .020 plain
7. F# .026 Wound
8. E. .030
9. B. .036
10.G# .042
11.E .054
12.B .070
Ernie Pollock  |
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Jon Jaffe
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 5:12 pm
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Two Klines
013 015 012 014 017 020p 026w 030w 036w 042w 054w 068w. I have used a 070w and an 072cw on the B but I prefer the taughtness of the 068w. I have also used a 22p on the G#. The sound was not that different to me, but the 020p felt better. I have never cared for a wound G# at all. Always George L Stainless. Their strings are good, and one phone call has them delivered in a couple of days. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2008 11:00 am Re: Here they are!!
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| Ernie Pollock wrote: |
To get my ol MSA to do what I want it to, I use these George 'L' Stainless String:
1. F# .011 1/2
2. Eb .017
3. G# .012
4. E .015
5. B .018plain
6. G# .020 plain
7. F# .026 Wound
8. E. .030
9. B. .036
10.G# .042
11.E .054
12.B .070
Ernie Pollock |
Why such a light 1st string, Ernie?
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2008 5:40 am Humm?
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B0B: Well, too tell the truth, I have that on the lever that raises my 9th string B up to D, It just would not go up to the G# note with a .012, so I stuck a .011 1/2 on there & she works great. I know I am nuts, but I will try anything to get this old MSA to do my bidding!! I have 7 pedals, with no standard 3rd pedal, & to get the E string to do what I wanted & have a half stop on it on its way to the F# note, thats why the .015 on there. I was always used to 8 pedals & at least 5 knee levers on my universals, so I had to give some things up to get what I really needed for my nutty style of playing. My 7th pedal only raises the 10th G# up to A#, I liked the old standard 'A' pedal on the D-10's & this was one way of getting that note, I use it with the 6th pedal that is like the standard 7th pedal on a normal steel guitar, but I ain't normal B0B, & with a little help from God, I won't be!!
Probably should try to get another pedal, but what the heck, things are going ok this way!!
Just sign me 'Steel Crazy'
Ernie  |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 1 Dec 2008 9:51 am
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I use the Jagwire E9/B6 stainless set, but I substitute an 0.0115 or 0.012 for the 3rd string, an 0.058 for the 11th, and an 0.070 or 0.072 for the 12th (and I should substitute an 0.044 or 0.046 for the 10th, but haven't tried that yet). So my ideal set is:
1 F# 12
2 D# 15
3 G# 12
4 E 14
5 B 17
6 G# 20p
7 F# 26w
8 E 30
9 B 36
10 G# 46
11 E 58
12 B 72
I did a graph plot in Excel based on standard pedal steel string sets. The curve I plotted with this allows one to pick gauges for any note in between the standard tunings, and to extrapolate for notes above or below the standard 10-string tunings. The curve is exponential and climbs very steeply at the low strings. So, although B6 is only a half-step lower than C6, my plot shows that the bottom three strings of a uni should be much bigger than C6 to maintain the same tension. The 10th string (G#) should be 0.045; the 11th (E) should be 0.057; and the 12th (B) should be 0.072. Using these heavier gauges will put a little more tone and sustain in those low strings, especially the low B. Wound strings are only available in even gauges, so you can choose one side or the other of the curve, depending on your neck length and tone preferences.
The top 9 strings are identical to 10-string E9, so they don't need to be any different from 10-string E9 sets. I've always felt a 3rd string 0.011 is unbalanced and weak, and a compromise to minimize string breakage. I think today's strings are better and more consistent than years ago, so 0.0115 and 0.012 work fine for me, with no additional breakage, especially with Jagwires. For me the 0.012 cuts through better for blues and rock, and sounds more balanced for country.
We should consider neck length in our choices. Most pedal steel string sets are designed for a 24 1/4" neck. For a 24" neck you can use slightly heavier gauges. This is something to consider in looking at the range of choices in string sets, or if you make yours up custom.
Keyless instruments with 24 1/2" to 25" necks can use lighter strings. However, many long-neck players seem to use standard sets, which means their tension is higher, which they like. This indicates that the standard string sets may be a little too light for shorter necks, and we could bump up the gauges and get a little more tension and tone. However, the extra stretch required with keyheads puts extra stress on the changer bend (the fingers have to rotate further), so it depends on how much you play, how often you change strings, and how much breakage you can tolerate. Ideally, the higher the tension the better for tone, right up to the break point.
With shorter necks and very low notes, there comes a point where pumping up the gauges to get the tension up results in really thick strings that don't have good harmonics and sustain, regardless of the tension. The bottom string of C6 and B6 uni are at that point. Your choices are a lighter string with inadequate tension (goes thud), or a heavier string with good tension but that is too thick (goes thump). Longer necks have the advantage of being able to get good tension but still use a light gauge string with good tone and sustain.
Some day I'd like to try an 0.022w or 0.024w on the 6th string G#. I understand the intonation is better, and it would have a mellower sound for jazz and classical. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2008 10:57 am
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| David Doggett wrote: |
| The curve is exponential and climbs very steeply at the low strings. So, although B6 is only a half-step lower than C6, my plot shows that the bottom three strings of a uni should be much bigger than C6 to maintain the same tension. The 10th string (G#) should be 0.045; the 11th (E) should be 0.057; and the 12th (B) should be 0.072. |
The amount of tension is determined by the core gauge, not the outside gauge.
| David Doggett wrote: |
Some day I'd like to try an 0.022w or 0.024w on the 6th string G#. I understand the intonation is better, and it would have a mellower sound for jazz and classical. |
I've always used a .022w for the G#. To me it just sounds better. The disadvantage is the long pedal throw, due to the small core size. A lot of guitars can't lower a .022w from G# to F# - it's just to much distance to travel.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2008 10:59 am Re: Humm?
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| Ernie Pollock wrote: |
| B0B: Well, too tell the truth, I have that on the lever that raises my 9th string B up to D, It just would not go up to the G# note with a .012, so I stuck a .011 1/2 on there & she works great. |
Seems to me that a .013 would work better. Thicker string means shorter travel. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 1 Dec 2008 11:31 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| The amount of tension is determined by the core gauge, not the outside gauge. |
Yes, my curve is not theoretical, but is empirically constructed from the gauges actually used in various pedal steel 10-string E9 and C6 string sets. This assumes the sellers have compensated for the change in core gauges of wound strings. Indeed, the curve shows a discontinuity where the string sets switch to wound strings at the 7th string. In other words, there are two different curves, one for plain strings, and one for wound strings. Where the different curves cover the same notes, they indicate that one should not replace a plain string with exactly the same gauge wound string, but should use something slightly thicker. Thus, the 6th string 0.020p, should be replaced with an 0.022w or 0.024w. This not only provides more consistent tension and tone across the strings, but minimizes the additional pull length required.
Last edited by David Doggett on 2 Dec 2008 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2008 5:20 am Once Again!!
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Hey B0B, Once again I have listened to someone elses idea, after reading you post, I went to my MSA S-12 Classic & tore that 11 1/2 off there [to prove that you were nuts B0B] Put a nice George 'L' .013 on that first string, & low & behold, it worked real nice, even made the lever seem to work better. I am now officially [if thats how you spell that] on your team B0B & any more words of advice you give to me will be looked at ASAP. Thanks for that. If I new how to change that 1st string on my post, I would make it a .013.
Us old dogs, can & will learn new tricks!!
Ernie Pollock  |
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