| Author |
Topic: question on wood |
Dennis Wireman
From:
North West Indiana 47978
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 5:39 am |
|
| Which wood is best for tone and durability birdseye or tiger maple? |
|
|
 |
Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
|
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 7:10 am
|
|
I would say that 99.99% of players could not tell the difference between birdseye and curly (tiger striped) or plain non figured maple.
If you had a experimental constant where the grain structure of all three woods was the same then they would all sound almost identical. The curl or the birdseye does not add to the acoustic property by itself. The density of the wood, the tightness or width of the grain pattern has the biggest effect on the sound. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 10:16 am
|
|
I would agree with Bill, in that the figuring probably has little to do with the tonal qualities. However, tiger-figured maple is usually red maple, and red maple is soft maple. This, and the figuring, is probably why it seems better for acoustic instruments (softer woods vibrate more readily, giving more volume). Bird's-eye figured maple is usually sugar maple (also called hard-rock maple). Hard rock maple has been the preferred wood for pedal steel guitars for a long time, probably as it seems to give the most bright and consistent sound.
Of course, since either figuring can be found in either species of maple, the characteristics of the wood (the species, age, growth conditions, cut, and density) are probably far more important in how the wood sounds than any figuring in the wood. |
|
|
|
Tommy Young
From:
Ethelsville Alabama
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 10:25 am
|
|
BILL I totally agree with you 100% on this, as i have worked on many of all three types of woods, The tighter the grain the better the sustain and richness of the tone. The figure has very little to do with tonalities, but the harder and more dense the wood the less cabinet drop and more sustain it has. just my 2 cents.
_________________
TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS
BMI dealer,Classic VIBE 100 amp... SIT strings.. |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 11:19 am
|
|
| I am glad that we agree on the grain structures of wood and how it relates to sustain and tone. So many players have very little knowledge of this. When I am in Guitar Center looking at guitars, the first thing I look at is the grain pattern in the neck. That is the last thing most players even consider. Having said that, it is still possible to make a good sounding guitar out of wood that is not so tight grain, but when you are talking about sustain then the integrity of the wood in the body and neck really comes into play. |
|
|
|
Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 11:39 am
|
|
what is "Spalted"?maple.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
|
|
|
Jim Gorrie
From:
Edinburgh ~ road works congestion capital of The World.
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 12:43 pm
|
|
Spalting is a discolouration caused by fungal growth. It occurs in Beech and other timbers as well as Maple.
Here is an example of Spalted Maple >
_________________
They told me I was gullible ~ and I believed them. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 12:45 pm
|
|
| Spalted woods are caused by staining of the wood, usually by a fungus. When trees are felled and left to lie on moist ground, the fungus attacks the wood and causes staining. Usually, some parts of the log wind up rotten, while others acquire the correct (or rather, preferred) discoloration streaks from the fungus. Spalting effects can also be produced by certain artificial staining methods, but then the effect is all near the surface, and not throughout the wood (as is the case with "natural" spalting). |
|
|
|
David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 1:29 pm
|
|
| I remember reading on the Forum quite awhile back some manufacturer saying the figuring detracts a little from the tone and sustain, because of irregularities that aren't present in tight, straight grain. For that reason (and probably for cost), straight grain is usually used in formica guitars. I don't know how much difference this makes, but it sounds reasonable. |
|
|
|
Dennis Wireman
From:
North West Indiana 47978
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 4:10 pm wood
|
|
| thanks guys for all the info, now if you were going to order a new pedal steel which wood would you pick and why? |
|
|
|
Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 4:58 pm Laminates?
|
|
There seems to be a consensus that hard maple is the best tone wood for the PSG, but....
Is there some reason that other, exotic looking woods aren't laminated over it for appearance? Some of the laminated top bodies on Warmoth.com are spectacular. Lacewood, koa, cocobola, etc. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 5:53 pm
|
|
| I've only seen a few with exotic wood veneers on the front and back aprons, but most wood lovers seem to prefer the more traditional woods. My favorite grained woods are Bocote, Persimmon, Macassar Ebony, Padauk, Kingwood, and Goncalo Alves. |
|
|
|
Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 6:04 pm
|
|
Thanks Guys. 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
|
|
|
Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 7:21 pm Re: Laminates?
|
|
| Rich Peterson wrote: |
There seems to be a consensus that hard maple is the best tone wood for the PSG, but....
Is there some reason that other, exotic looking woods aren't laminated over it for appearance? Some of the laminated top bodies on Warmoth.com are spectacular. Lacewood, koa, cocobola, etc. |
I know on thing for sure....never use maple for a Tele body. I made that mistake! |
|
|
|
Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
|
Posted 10 Dec 2008 11:17 pm
|
|
Why not, Glen?
Some years ago I built a Tele body with an alder core, and top & bottom made of flamed birdseye (yes, both types of figuration occurring in the same pieces), 1/4" thick. It looks great, and sounds great as well.
What made you disappointed? |
|
|
|
Dennis Wireman
From:
North West Indiana 47978
|
Posted 11 Dec 2008 4:54 am woods
|
|
| stu i have to say you got a one of a kind new horn for sure and Per great lookin gteloe there. |
|
|
|
Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
|
Posted 11 Dec 2008 5:56 am
|
|
Hmmmmm..With all that's been said, maybe I have quite possibly the best of both/three species, straight grain hard rock maple top, curly maple aprons, mahogany fretboard. I have been told that it had a really good sound/tone(I think so too).
Bill
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2008 11:06 am
|
|
| The wood used in a steel is thick enough that I doubt grain patterning would have much effect. But in guitars that use thinner wood, it might. I don't really know, but here's a short story. I went to a sale once, and the son of the departed was selling his Dad's guitar. It was a Gibson L-5 from the '40s. Beautiful guitar, in wonderful condition! As I examined it, I was rather surprised to see that the sides and back were close, and straight-grained. This was not the case with L-5s. They always had very curly, showy wood on the sides and back. I mentioned this to the son. He told me that his Dad had custom-ordered the guitar with the straight-grained woods. When I wondered why, he told me his Dad felt they sounded better. I asked him what his Dad had done for a living. "Well, besides being a big band musician, he was an acoustic engineer." |
|
|
|
Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 11 Dec 2008 6:40 pm
|
|
Tommy, Bill...
So I guess my questions to you then are: Is Birdseye maple as hard and dense as the regular hard maple, or rock maple as you call it?
I hope you say yes, because Birdseye is so darn pretty
Another wood I have been thinking of trying for a neck is Purpleheart. That would be one dramatic contrast to maple! It sure looks to be very tight, heavy and dense. Your comments on this please? |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 11 Dec 2008 9:52 pm
|
|
| Bent Romnes wrote: |
Tommy, Bill...
So I guess my questions to you then are: Is Birdseye maple as hard and dense as the regular hard maple, or rock maple as you call it?
I hope you say yes, because Birdseye is so darn pretty
Another wood I have been thinking of trying for a neck is Purpleheart. That would be one dramatic contrast to maple! It sure looks to be very tight, heavy and dense. Your comments on this please? |
I have hundreds of board feet of figured maple. All from the same area in Michigan. All rock maple. Some is curly and some is birdseye. Both figures occur in rock maple. In soft maple from the Pacific Northwest you see mostly quilted patterns and curl.
The tighness of the grain is different in every tree. You can have curl and birdseye in wide grain maple or in tight grain. The wide grain tree would have grown near a water source and had plenty of summer growing season. The tighter grain wood would have grown possibly in a higher elevation with less water. You just have to inspect each board to see what you are getting.
I also have some 50 year old purple heart. It is more akin to maple than to rosewood in hardness and workability with tools. It makes a beautiful guitar and is a fine tone wood. |
|
|
|
Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 4:01 am
|
|
| Generally speaking, plain grained woods of the same type are more stable and as good if not better sounding than figured woods. Figured woods sure do look pretty though. |
|
|
|
Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 7:51 am
|
|
| Thanks, Bill. I appreciate it! |
|
|
|
Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 9:54 am
|
|
I think Sho-Bud built one, or more using purple heart, maybe Bobbe can verify, should look nice.
Bill
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
|
|
|
James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 10:05 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| I would say that 99.99% of players could not tell the difference between birdseye and curly (tiger striped) or plain non figured maple. |
I agree, Bill and would add that the other .01% would need an oscilloscope to do it. |
|
|
|
