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Topic: What actually is A6 tuning? |
Mark Evans
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2018 3:26 pm |
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Greetings
As primarily a weissenborner, I’ve spent most hours playing in open D, G, and C.
I finally got one of my weiss’ in C6 and am having some of those ‘Aha!’ Moments of musicality. I’m going to have to learn and memorize notes and chord position. This is a good thing for my aging brain.
Anyway, I’ve been twisting tuners and getting into adjacent tunings (via forum searches) and discovering all sorts of cool tones.
I returned to E6 = (B–E–G#–B–C#–E) which I referenced off a search. BUT when I am on another tuning page, the low B on another A6 listing is actually C#.
There apparently are no hard and fast rules? Alls fair in lap steel love and tone?
_________________
Larry Pogreba Baritone 'Weissenheimer
Late 30’s Oahu Tonemaster
Hermann Guitars style 1 Weissenborn
2017 Richard Wilson Style 1 Weissenborn |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 28 Nov 2018 4:00 pm
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Sort of!
Any A6 tuning is going to have a 1,3,5, and 6th.
So:
E
C#
A
F#
...then usually E and C#. I don't know what a B is doing in that A6 you mention. I have seen that bottom string tuned to G for 7th chord strums.
Some people like A6 because the 5th on the top is handy. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 28 Nov 2018 4:09 pm
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Mark, to which book are you referring?
Here is the typical 6 string A6 as found in Andy Volk's excellent small book, Slide Rules:
1. 5th E
2. 3rd C#
3. root A
4. 6th F#
5. 5th E
6. 3rd C#
_________________
Mark |
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Mark Evans
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2018 4:47 pm
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C# makes sense
There were a few steps from C6 to A6
I’ll keep exploring
_________________
Larry Pogreba Baritone 'Weissenheimer
Late 30’s Oahu Tonemaster
Hermann Guitars style 1 Weissenborn
2017 Richard Wilson Style 1 Weissenborn |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2018 6:16 am
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
Sort of!
Any A6 tuning is going to have a 1,3,5, and 6th.
So:
E
C#
A
F#
...then usually E and C#. I don't know what a B is doing in that A6 you mention. I have seen that bottom string tuned to G for 7th chord strums.
Some people like A6 because the 5th on the top is handy. |
Like me.
| b0b wrote: |
The B11th tuning looks like A6th on the top 4 strings.
E
C#
A
F#
D#
B |
Thanks for bringing that up; on a 6 string you can retune the 2 lowest strings and be in B11 from A6.
It's also only a 2 string retune to go from A6 to the C6/A7 tuning:
E
C#
A
F#
E
C#
A6
E
C
A
G
E
C#
C6/A7 |
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Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
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Posted 29 Nov 2018 9:31 am
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| Thanks for pointing all that out, very useful. I'm not familiar with that 6 string A6 tuning and was wondering what Hawaiian songs or country/western swing songs that are somewhat well known might have been recorded with it? Hopefully one can find the audio on YouTube. Anyone know of any specifically? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2018 11:33 am
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Herb Remington and Noel Boggs both used A6th a lot. They played 8 strings, but the top 6 are exactly the same.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2018 11:36 am
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I had A6th on one of the necks on my T-8 Stringmaster.
Erv |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 10:33 am
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Billy Hew Len played in A6 a lot. It's very much like C6, except with a top 5th...like C6 with a high G.
I used to have it on my triple...but it lost its spot to E13. Having C6/13 and B11, which is as mentioned, basically 2/3 A6, I didn't use it much. But it's a nice tuning. I gather it's the standard in Western Swing?
Also is a good tuning for the tune Maui Chimes. I used to play South Sea Island Magic on it but switched to playing it in either E13 or C13 (thanks Baz).
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 12:22 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| Billy Hew Len played in A6 a lot. |
I am under the impression that A6 was his "home" tuning, although from what I have heard (literally) he was also familiar with many other tunings, and used a Fender pedal steel at times. He also seemed quite aware of the C6 tunings, and the "Feets" tuning too, from those lesson tapes.
At this point I am not enough of an expert on one of the best but least studied of the Hawaiian steel guitar players to make more than a few general comments. Frankly I'd love to know more about him and his playing style.
From other posts:
A Billy Hew Len 8 string tuning, A6 on the top 6 strings, but a full dim 7 on the bottom 4:
E
C#
A
F#
E
C#
Bb
G
(yes the G dim7 should be spelled as G Bb Dd Fb, but it's enharmonically the same.) |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 12:43 pm
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David, we can always count on you to take "tuning geekdom" to another level... 
_________________
Mark |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 12:47 pm
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Yeah I don't disagree...I think his 400 was based in A6 too, which makes sense (as an aside I remain slightly convinced that Jules Ah See played a Fender 1000 in a C6 variant, but talk about an absence of source material! Just about all we have left is listening to recordings).
A6 is also a fairly easy retune from both C6 and B11, no string change required. When I tried it I liked it, felt like it was just like C6 but with more space to play double stop melodies on the upper strings. If I were to put it on an 8 string guitar I'd likely go "A13" by sharping the lowest string to G, giving you an option for a dom7 / 13 chord.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 1:41 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
A6 is also a fairly easy retune from both C6 and B11, no string change required. |
That's the beauty of C6 (or A6)as a base tuning. It's adjacent to many other tunings with a few twists of tuners.
Jules Ah See even had another one...D9 which he uses to play My Rose of Waikiki
E
C
A
F#
E
C# |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 3:52 pm
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
A6 is also a fairly easy retune from both C6 and B11, no string change required. |
That's the beauty of C6 (or A6)as a base tuning. It's adjacent to many other tunings with a few twists of tuners.
Jules Ah See even had another one...D9 which he uses to play My Rose of Waikiki
E
C
A
F#
E
C# |
My teacher (Alan Akaka) has taught me a couple tunes in D9 (Hanalei Moon and Beautiful Kahana). I've always been a fan of the Rose of Waikiki Jules played...you don't know of a tab I assume?? Would be greatly interested. I worked out a C6 equivalent but it wasn't the same, naturally.
PS. If you want an..."interesting" alternate song by that title, listen to this by the Very Small Timothy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmg0AbhgQ0
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 30 Nov 2018 4:45 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
My teacher (Alan Akaka) has taught me a couple tunes in D9 (Hanalei Moon and Beautiful Kahana). I've always been a fan of the Rose of Waikiki Jules played...you don't know of a tab I assume?? Would be greatly interested. I worked out a C6 equivalent but it wasn't the same, naturally.
PS. If you want an..."interesting" alternate song by that title, listen to this by the Very Small Timothy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmg0AbhgQ0 |
Very cool that you are taking lessons from Alan. I'm sorry I don't have tab...I just learned it off of that record a loooong time ago. I would have to relearn it myself! The tuning does help you get "that" note if you know what I mean. The harmonic section is the trickiest part of course!
I LOVED the Tiny Tim "Rose". So many great hapa haole songs from that era. It wasn't until I was all grown up sometime later that I got what Tiny Tim was about. You have to know the real old music to appreciate where he was coming from. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2018 4:28 am
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| David, we can always count on you to take "tuning geekdom" to another level... |
Sorry - I love all those related tunings and how unique each is in their own way.
A6 is my main tuning, so of course I'd make one of my comments.
| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
Yeah I don't disagree...I think his 400 was based in A6 too, which makes sense (as an aside I remain slightly convinced that Jules Ah See played a Fender 1000 in a C6 variant, but talk about an absence of source material! Just about all we have left is listening to recordings).
A6 is also a fairly easy retune from both C6 and B11, no string change required. When I tried it I liked it, felt like it was just like C6 but with more space to play double stop melodies on the upper strings. If I were to put it on an 8 string guitar I'd likely go "A13" by sharping the lowest string to G, giving you an option for a dom7 / 13 chord. |
Like you, I wish there was more source info on Jules Ah See, too.
Both of those players experimented with pedal steels, both were wonderful players, and I would love to learn more details about their work.
I think the reason I like A6 is much the same - the "space to play double stop melodies on the upper strings"...and it doesn't hurt that I began on tunings that had 1-3-5 on the top strings.
If you search the forum there is a picture of an album cover with Billy Hew Len's own tuning on it, the one I gave above as A6 + Gdim7...I guess that's what I'd call it! |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2018 4:31 am
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
That's the beauty of C6 (or A6)as a base tuning. It's adjacent to many other tunings with a few twists of tuners.
Jules Ah See even had another one...D9 which he uses to play My Rose of Waikiki
E
C
A
F#
E
C# |
That's a cool tuning, and Jules certainly used it well on "Rose".
Again, we need to collect and organize all the bits of info we have on these two giants of the Hawaiian steel. As far as I know, there have been no serious biographies or musical analyses of either Hew Len or Ah See. |
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