newbie information overload

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

I know its hard not to do it but don't ya think that sometimes , we give the guys and gals just getting started to much information ?
back when I was learning to fly my instructor would only let me fly about an hour or so before we would land and when I asked him why not let me fly longer, he said that the brain could only process so much at a time.
later as I got more comfortable we would fly longer ..so wouldn't the same thing apply here ?
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

That's what a good private teacher would do. Present the information at a pace the student can handle.

But how is that possible on a forum on the internet? Who would be the person that would control the flow of information? I sure wouldn't want that job. You'd have virtually the whole world mad at you.

Additionally; if the information was restricted so the beginners didn't get overloaded, it would be a pretty boring forum for the more experienced players.

Brandon Schafer · From: Indiana, USA

Don't many professional teachers have a vested interest in slowly divulging the valuable information? Doesn't that help keep them in business?

I have been playing a comparatively short time compared to many here on the forum. I know I never have griped about having lots of information at my fingertips.

Bring on the information overload! I'm a big enough boy to try and sort it out at my own pace. Smile

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Brandon: That's a very cynical view of teachers. I've been a teacher in several different fields of endeavor, including steel guitar. In my experience, when I get a student that is progressing rapidly, I get real motivated to find interesting new things to present to them. It's a pleasure to teach some students. The money becomes very secondary.

Brandon Schafer · From: Indiana, USA

You are right, Paul. That is cynical and not a fair characterization of most teachers.

I don't feel it was a fair thing to say about most. But, I have been privy to unfortunate situations where that kind of thing can happen.

I have certainly picked up a thing or two from the videos you have been kind enough to post! Thank you for sharing!

I guess I am very thankful so much information IS out there and shudder to think I shouldn't be able to access it. Especially, when based on the premise that I might not be able to handle the "information overload".

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

my point is that to much information can be difficult for the new steel player to decipher

many times I have seen a simple question answered with a page long answer .when a simple sentence could have done it . most times all this does is muddy the water
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Calvin, part of that comes from imprecise questions. As you've no doubt seen on the forum, even people who know how to play, ask a question in a form that can mean three or four different questions, and the poster just assumes that the rest of us have tuned in to his/her wavelength.
A n00b confounds things by not even knowing how to ask the question, and completely unaware that s/he just asked a boneheadedly confusing question (why isn't my B pedal working right? )
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

There will always be those who embrace the past and poopoo the future. In 1980 while I was on Okinawa, I built an Apple II clone from parts I had assembled. It was as close to "Consumer State of the Art" as could be gotten at the time. 16K of memory... At a speed I have long forgotten, using one full size 6" floppy drive. Last week, because my daughter works at the National Lab in Knoxville, Tn. I got to see the fastest computer in the world. It's name is Titan! 27 pedaflops per second! I think that is the correct terminology, but if it is not it doesn't matter, it is unbelievably fast. This computer and its brothers and sisters are the ones that model the weather and other huge number crunching tasks. Point: If the minds that designed and built this and other things at that location, had sat around wringing there hands, screaming "Information overload", many of the wonderful things we enjoy today would not have come to pass. There will always be those that thirst for information, the more the better. And there will always be those who can't program their TV remote. I believe this, it takes more energy to to sit around dreaming up reasons why I can't do something, then it does finding some little something in a pile of information that might be useful to me at any point in my learning curve. Information, bring it on... Bring it all on! Very Happy

George Buechley · From: Indiana, USA

Well said, Dick!

Regards, George
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Pre WWII Dobro, Sho~Bud Pro II Custom, Peavey Session 115, GFI Expo, Roland Cube XL80, Lil Izzy

Tommy Janiga · From: New York, USA

As a new PSG player, I don't see this as a problem, but rather as a benefit. Smile

Almost anything I need to know is out there for me to find, and I don't even need to ask more than an occasional question (if even that) from anyone here.

The archives for this forum are also deep with information.
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Mullen G2 SD10, Nashville 112, 1975 Fender Stratocaster, 1970 Fender MusicMaster Bass, Yamaha console piano, Yamaha P-125

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

That bit of life experience CALVIN......is remembered well. It was obvious to me also that after so long, all I heard was the flight instructor's voice and not his words/thoughts.

I've found this to me true in a number of steel guitar teaching sessions. And, not all students have the measure of burning desire that some of us older folk had back in the olden days.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

calvin's right. i know what he's saying. many times a newer player will ask a general question that only requires a general answer and many members will start expounding on information overload that only a more experienced player would be aware of, let alone care about.

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

I learned a long time ago at a job, "Don't ask Howard (THE guru) to help you with this problem until you have searched through all your reference manuals and operating guides, ..."

This is some of the best advice I ever got. Saves everybody time. When you think about it, a lot of questions can be answered by digging - isn't that called research??

The Forum provides a wealth of information to all levels Smile

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--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

Stuart Legg · Posted 8 May 2013 12:12 pm

The problem with a lot of PSG teachers is they don’t teach music
Let’s suppose that we had a student the had a music teacher (not an instrument teacher) who taught a student about music for about 13 weeks to where the student could look at a 13b9b5 chord and know what notes it required.
Who could understand scales and how to harmonize them. Who could understand intervals. Who could understand the language of music.
Then lets take a person who don’t know a thing about music.
They both show up with the same enthusiasm and determination for the first day in front of a PSG teacher.
Which student would you rather teach? Which student would you rather be?

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Stuart, great point

in the case of a page long reply to a question , one could handle it , the other couldn't
the student without the benefit of the music teacher will read the reply , get a glazed look in his eyes and say .....HUH !!!!
the student with the music teacher will understand the page long reply and will come up with 2 more good questions .

the problem is that most don't have a knowledge of music theory and thus end up like the 1st student
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

A great quote I heard from a music store owner who is also an accomplished musician, "We are what we practice." That sums it up.

I want to play all styles on the instrument, except maybe classical.. so in between songs for the band I still work on basics - pick blocking, palm blocking (ugh!), etc.,etc. and hope to get into some bebop stuff soon - it's a continuum of learning. Anyone who does not feel humble about his ability in my opinion is a fool - we can always get better, but should always look at what we've accomplished! Sometimes I go back and look at my lesson book from 20 years ago and smile.

I guess as a student I fall in there somewhere as someone with much jazz background on 6 string guitar who still has trouble playing "Twinkle, twinkle, little, star" on the PSG Very Happy

_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i'm the first student. don't know crap about extended numbers and letters.
however, i've practiced playing music for 40 years so that's all i know how to do.

stuart, on the other hand, practices talking numbers and letters.

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

You don't have to know what a b13th or b5 or b9 is as long as you can hear it and not step on it when someone else plays it in the group. A big part of playing is listening, and makes me, at least, a better player Smile

Talking numbers and letters is a big part of learning and a necessity for sight reading. I can't imagine reading a chart in a band and not knowing, say, what a D7b9 or Bm7b5 is. Again, we are what we practice..
_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

Stuart Legg · Posted 8 May 2013 5:14 pm

I’d really like to know how many PSG players could honestly recognize a 13b5b9 when they heard it.

I’d like to know how many PSG players could in an instant find something on the their PSG neck that would be somewhat equivalent to that chord.

Why is it that every time I go to hear Jazz players most of them have a degree or some college.
Most of these players are young and they didn’t practice for forty years and they are all great players.

Having musical knowledge in no way implies you will somehow practice less or your ear won’t develop as well.

Except if you play PSG, then everything except practice is BS.

So just play the damn thing but pardon me if I don’t want to hear you.

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

Stuart:

This is making me go back to my copedent chart and see where this stuff is Smile

_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

Bo Legg · Posted 8 May 2013 6:05 pm

A 13b5b9 is one of the most God awful chords anyone could ever make. But that's not the point.
Country players brag about their lack of theory knowledge and rock players seem to be proud of it
Maybe that’s why we have millions more good rock guitar players than we have good PSG players.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

do jazz players get chicks?

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

13b5b9 chord. What chord is it? Is there a song where the chord is used, that can be listened to?

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

All of the information regarding the steel and how to play it is out there right now. Anyone who wants to play has access to it at any level, quantity or speed they want. Sure overload is a problem, but that unfortunately is the problem of the student. If the student is under the guidance of a knowledgable teacher then a sensible pace can be set. If the student is self teaching, then he/she will have to control this themselves. All anyone else can do for the student at that point is to advise them how to proceed.
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