Do we bare any responsible for what happens after a gig?

Bo Legg · Posted 29 Sep 2008 11:07 am

As a PSG player in a Band, I hold myself partly responsible for the bad things that have happen to people driving home from gigs that I’ve played where alcohol was served.

After being in the club for almost 6 hours as band member I’m pretty sure who’s drunk and who’s not.

I’m also pretty sure that for the most of them there is no designated driver.

I’m also sure that the club does not have enough employees to look after all these folks well being.

I know they will be lucky to make it home without killing somebody and/or themselves or at the very least make it home without getting a DUI and the misery that comes with it.

I know of people who were killed in auto accidents where alcohol was involved while they were returning home from a gig I had played. This included a good friend and drummer in the band one night.

As I start to play the first song I can’t help but look out over audience and wonder if all these people are going to make it home safely and just want to yell “please go home now before you drink too much “

Why don’t I do that? Because I would get fired and never be able to play in any club that heard about it.

Why don’t I take their keys away from them? I tried that and every time I got into a fight.

I have two choices quit or go and look the other way and play.

If I play I must accept the fact that while I contribute to fun I also contribute to the bad things that can happen to them on the way home.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

as a band you may very well be sued if someone dies or kills someone from driving drunk after drinking somewhere you gigged. is it nuts? Sure! but, it could happen. Liability insurance is a good idea.

Bob I. Williams · From: Sun City West, Arizona, USA

How about all the other things that happen after a gig? I cannot be held responsable for my actions!!! BOB

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't think the band can be sued. It is the responsibility of the bartender and the club owner to police THEIR customers, not the band. The responsibilty falls onto the person or persons who served the customer the alcohol (and their bosses/owners), whether at a club or at your home. With this logic that the band could be sued, it would stand to reason that every other customer in attendance should be liable also. I think not.

Ernie Renn · From: Brainerd, Minnesota USA

Bo;

I don't think as a member of the band you could be held liable for the bar employees, (bartenders, waitresses and bouncers,) not doing their jobs. It is their responsibility to know who's had too much to drink and cut them off at that point. If they don't have enough employees to do this, they need to hire more. It's certainly not up to the band to keep track of who is drinking 'how-much' or when.

Unless of course, you own the bar or are a bartender on breaks.
_________________
My best,
Ernie

www.BuddyEmmons.com

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

It's happened. they can be sued. To file a law suit, you don't have to actually have a winnable case.
Will it stick and the band will be found responsible? that all depends but, at that point you've already spent a chunk of money in attorney representation.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Can you point us to an article or web page to support your claim?

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

if you want specific cases I'd have to research it a bit but, the point is that it's totally irrelevant. You can go to any court and file a civil law suit and until it goes in front of a judge you are being sued. if you go to court with out an attorney it's a crap shoot. So yeah you can be sued. Criminal charges can't be filed but, civil.,well you can sue for anything. no matter how ridiculous.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't think it would even make it on to a judges desk. There are crackdowns now on frivolous lawsuits. This would get laughed into the trash can before it ever made it inside a court room. I don't think any judge would agree to hear the case.

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

that all depends on the area of the country. it could be argued that the band creates an environment that encourages the drinking.

It's grey area enough that it's not out right identifiable as frivolous.

If you think there's a crack down. you should see some of the nutty small claims cases that have been on in the last few years.

Also even if it doesn't make it in front of a judge, the case would be filed and if you don't hire an attorney you take your chances even at that early stage. Is it worth the risk?

If the question is can you be found responsible, it could be argued either way.

if it's can you be sued, then the answer is yes.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

They say half of all fatal accidents are caused by drunk drivers, and a lot of people find that shameful and totally irresponsible. By the same token, the other half of all fatal accidents are caused by sober drivers, and everyone tries not to think about that. Rolling Eyes

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

bone heads on the road come in all states..including sober..i used to teach driver's ed..this was part of my education to the kids

I think Bo is asking a moral question and then you're really in grey area

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

Nope!
I only feel responsible for their having good music.

R Robichaud · From: Riverview, N.B. Canada

I think that hotels should open up their purse and do society a favor by hiring bands. This would eliminate a lot of drunks off the road, and promote local talent.

Ray Jenkins · From: Gold Canyon Az. U.S.A.

I'm starting to more understand the saying "Live Free or Live in Mass.!!
Ray
_________________
Steeling is still legal in Arizona

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

There is a little thing called "personal responsibility" for ones own actions !! (The drinkers in this case)

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

As someone who was born and raised in Massachusetts but has lived all over the country, I think the point of view of the question is highly relevant. It would not remotely surprise me to find strong regional-cultural differences in that POV - legalistic vs. ethical.

I think people are responsible for their own actions, and should not be allowed to blame others for their own stupidity. In addition, we are all stupid sometimes, and we need to face that squarely. Both these points cut in multiple directions. Neither a purely legalistic or purely moralistic judgmental view get very far.

Around this college town, bands have been known to engage in rituals that exhort patrons to drink a helluvalot of booze. From either perspective - legalistic or ethical - I don't think I'd advise that. Instead, I think both views are served by exhorting moderation.

Of course - in some situations, bands are judged not only by how many people come to their shows but also on, effectively, how much booze they buy. How many bands have you been in that were basically treated as "beer salesmen"? I've been in a bunch. This creates a pretty strong conflict-of-interest.

I still say that the best solution is when people start to realize that they are truly responsible for their own actions. Nobody shoves the booze down your throat.

Bo Legg · Posted 29 Sep 2008 4:17 pm

I personally will not drink or buy drinks for anyone at a club.

I'm getting paid to be there and I have never understood being able to drink on the job just because your a musician.

I feel that I should never drive if I drink even one drink.
In Missouri you can get a DUI if you say you've had one beer.

If the bar gives free drinks or offers reduced prices or two for one etc. to band members or patrons of the club it is an enticement to drink more than normal and if they have an accident after they leave, they then could sue the club and win in a lot of states. It is the law in some states.

Of course if I drink anywhere and have an accident I am liable.

If I was paid money or drinks to play at a club and I was served drinks at the club, then the club could be held liable as well, and the plantiff would have a good chance of winning in a lot of States.
In some states it is illegal to serve the band drinks.

It is not a good idea as a band member playing in a club, to buy a round of drinks for a table or an individual, in that you might be liable if they have an accident. Liability insurance for clubs is very high just for a lot of the reasons I have listed.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

AJ Azure · From: Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

unless Bo has had a sex change i think Donnie Osmond is more likely

Anyway, none of my musicians are allowed to drink at my bookings. A job is a job and losing self control at work is a no no.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Since 1961 I did virtually every type of civil/criminal investigation one might imagine.

Here in Oregon, they always had me digging around trying to find the "deep pockets".......the corporate owners and on-duty staff of the establishment in order to prove liability.

I know attorneys that would sue their own mothers but have NEVER encountered a situation where anyone even looked twice at a musician. They are after the ownership, business insurance policy limits, and guarantors of any/all business transactions.

After all, after seeing some of the deplorable exhibits on television........who'd ever figure out that musicians have any assets!

They spent several years getting to the bottom of the multiple death fiasco where the pyrotechnics got the interior of the building on fire and more than one person died, as a result.

I have to say musicians are not a likely target of those ambulance chasing barristers.

Ray Jenkins · From: Gold Canyon Az. U.S.A.

I think there is a law that covers this Poll Question,called The Draum Law.It pertains only to bartenders and club or bar owners.It don't include bouncers or band members.(unless a band member leaves the bar drunk and hurts/kills someone.)

Mr.Azure,will this get me back on the topic at hand?
Ray
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Steeling is still legal in Arizona

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