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Topic: Wrist support ideas? |
Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2008 6:52 am |
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Any "over the counter" ideas for a right hand wrist support pad to mount on the lap steel? I like those gel supports on mouse pads or the long thin ones that sit under your wrists when using a computer keyboard, but I'm wondering if anyone has found a smaller sized version that doesn't need to be sliced up, recovered, etc. It needs to be about 1.5" by 3" or so.
Regards,
Blake |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2008 7:25 am Re: Wrist support ideas?
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| Blake Wilson wrote: |
Any "over the counter" ideas for a right hand wrist support pad...
Regards,
Blake |
Hey Blake,
I used this sorta' thing in my medical career often. Take a look at medical supply vendors, especially ones that cater to those with neurological or orthopedic issues.
This sort of supportive pad can be custom formed to fit the anatomical requirements of each person individually.
Good Luck,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2008 3:59 pm
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| they sell small bean bag or sand filed pillow..i have a few called koosh. very comfortable |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 11:11 am
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Just get an old heavy sock and cut yourself a wrist band. Or buy a wrist sweat band. I keep one handy for those hot summer days to keep the places my wrist might touch dry - but it adds comfort too.
_________________
Chris Kennison
Rhythm Cats - steel, guitar, banjo, dobro
Gold Canyon, AZ
www.rhythmcatsshow.com
www.seldomfed.com |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 11:25 am
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| he's talking cushioning not sweat control. Totally different thing. Plus the sock....well yucky looking |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 10:33 am WEll, WHY NOT.......................
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Why not just simply establish a proper position for that wrist like thousands of other players have done down thro' the decades? There is always a PROPER way to do things. Short-cuts often result in short-comings and the real objective is thus, never achieved.
Arm rests, wrist rests, elboe rests and the like....
I don't undertand it. (Not being critical, just confused, perhaps)
It seems like more 'PROBLEMS' for playing the steel guitar have arisen during this last year or two as opposed to the previous 40-50 years. Bad habits? |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 10:57 am
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Ray, people's bodies are different, strains can happen. 40-50 years ago people weren't aware of the damage they might be doing to themselves doing repetitive musical things.
One's proper position could be another's carpal tunnel. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 11:00 am Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................
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| SOUNDS reasonable to me..... |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 11:04 am
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| just talking form an injured person's vantage point. i have severe arthritis so as a player and a teacher i am ultra aware of potential injury. nothing worse than losing your music to physical issues |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 2:19 pm injury or lazy?
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| Quote: |
| support pad to mount on the lap steel? |
Blake: Are you injured and wanting a devise similar to a bowling arm thingy?
Are you wanting a hand rest?
Asuming you are wanting to position the hand/arm on your lap steel,
I totally agree with Ray Montee.
Some of us call this Lazy Wrist.
Let's figure out what you are asking for and then the open onions as to technique can begin to make the tears flow.
Mr.Boards |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 2:27 pm
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| why on lap steel would it be lazy wrist and on a computer keyboard with a wrist support pad, it's good ergonomics? consider that one has been looked at by physical therapists and other physio experts and the other has not or a lot less due to a lesser user base. |
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Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 25 Sep 2008 7:07 pm
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Lazy wrist? Did Buddy Emmons have it?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=132276
Short cuts? Does the design of this guitar promote "improper wrist position", Ray?
My lap has legs, console-style. I've found I'm more comfortable with the guitar on the legs (its higher,I can see better, etc) than on *my* legs, and I like to rest my wrist on the guitar, hence my original post. I had no idea some folks consider this bad form. If so, why is it bad, and why would anyone manufacture a guitar that's obviously designed to facilitate it?
Regards,
Blake |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 7:15 am Absolutely correct, AJ.
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
| just talking form an injured person's vantage point. i have severe arthritis so as a player and a teacher i am ultra aware of potential injury. nothing worse than losing your music to physical issues |
Right on, AJ.
There are absolutely hundreds (This # is no exaggeration.) of classical musicians with years of perfect form prreparation who have turned to teaching because of repetitive stress injuries (RSI). I worked in Ortho for quite a bit before I retired and I've seen a fair number of these patients.
Mayo Clinic (Where I was employed.) is currently treating a number of folks with names you would recognize because of the beating that a musicians hands take. Perfect form does not equate to an individual's ability to withstand repeated small joint movements that the human body is not designed to perform. In fact, some Classical disciplines are now doing biometric studies on young prodigies in the hopes of precluding the potential of a shortened career.
Form is important, but there is no perfect form for any instrument. Each human body is incredibly different. And, in fact, they are far more different on the inside than they are on the outside. If someone says they know what the perfect form is... Run!!! They are either fools or liars.
Because "their" perfect form is not "your" perfect form nor is it anyone else's perfect form. Unless the two of you have been DNA tested and determined to be genetically identical twins.
I speak from personal experience. My form has always been as "perfect" as I could make it. I've had to stop playing entirely a couple of times in my life. Music performance RSI has resulted in no less than 3 hand surgeries. Two on my left hand and one on my right. My hand specialist is recommending 2 more! But, I don't know if I can take anymore!
There is NO perfect form for EVERYONE!
Take a look at Stanley Jordan's website!
FWIW
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Kevin Greenberg
From:
Lakewood, CA
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 7:06 pm wrist support
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| I'd have to agree with my elder statesmen Ray and George. Wrist rest = lazy wrist. I've tried playing resting the wrist, and it just hinders your movement. No rest is the way to go. You can move up and down the strings while picking with your hand at the proper angle, since your arm is not stationary. When you rest it, you have to change your hand angle by moving your wrist to an improper position, as you move up and down the strings. As far as injuries and playing, play it any way you can. But resting the wrist still hinders your playing. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 9:33 am
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you can still move your arm the same way.what it does is supply a support when necessary.
Musical experience does not equate to an understanding of physiology and ergonomics. Listen to Johnee he clearly has a better understanding of this. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 10:06 am I appreciate your kind words, but...
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
you can still move your arm the same way.what it does is supply a support when necessary.
Musical experience does not equate to an understanding of physiology and ergonomics. Listen to Johnee he clearly has a better understanding of this. |
Honestly, AJ this understanding of the limitations (and approaches/corrections/repairs/prevention) goes back at least to the '70s. It started with those VERY well-to-do pro athletes of course.
Dr. Frank Jobe rebuilt Tommy John after far, far more over-hand fastballs than any human body was designed to tolerate. TJ is undoubtedly the most famous of the RSI guys. He was lucky; Dr. Jobe was improvising a procedure at the genius level and it all came together perfectly.
TJ's career continued and an incredible number of pitchers' arms were corrected because of TJ's willingness and Jobe's talent. That episode probably ingrained the pitch count in baseball, and probably saved a lot of young kid's arms.
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 10:11 am
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
| he's talking cushioning not sweat control. Totally different thing. Plus the sock....well yucky looking |
ya gotta wash the sock 
it's does cushion a bit. I don't rest my wrist when playing usually, but between songs, or if I'm muting I may end up letting my hand rest on the back neck.
For me - that 1/4" of wrist band is plenty.
I have to agree that erogonomic positions etc. have to be applied to each individual. I say use 'proper' technique as a starting point, then adjust it, and use what ever works for you, and keep re-inventing what works for you!
worth a watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuIkrsdrJLY
_________________
Chris Kennison
Rhythm Cats - steel, guitar, banjo, dobro
Gold Canyon, AZ
www.rhythmcatsshow.com
www.seldomfed.com |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 10:37 am Your very right, Seldomfed...
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| seldomfed wrote: |
I have to agree that erogonomic positions etc. have to be applied to each individual. I say use 'proper' technique as a starting point, then adjust it, and use what ever works for you, and keep re-inventing what works for you!
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This is excellent advice and it may in fact help rehab a painful joint, and more importantly may forestall the onset of RSI. But, the only truly productive action for many people is rest. Don't exceed the # of reps that your body is capable of! Stop at the VERY FIRST signs of pain or stiffness.
Believe me, I wish I had listened to my own advice years ago. Hand surgery is a finer art than perhaps any other procedures; I'm thankful that Dr. Anthony Smith agreed to treat me. I'm sure there are a lot of famous musicians and athletes who he could see. He is the most talented Hand Surgeon there has ever been. (Trained at Fort Sam Houston, BTW.)
Johnne Lee 
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 11:29 am
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| in my case stopping at pain would stop me from playing since i have pain 24/7 due to the arthritis. However, i stop when the joints becomes way too inflamed. Playing makes my arthritis better. The endorphines released from enjoying music is also a great pain killer. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 12:21 pm I know where of you speak, AJ.
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
| in my case stopping at pain would stop me from playing since i have pain 24/7 due to the arthritis. However, i stop when the joints becomes way too inflamed. Playing makes my arthritis better. The endorphines released from enjoying music is also a great pain killer. |
Yeah, AJ, it sounds as though for you and I, it is maybe a bit late in the game for something as simple as rest, huh?
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Kevin Greenberg
From:
Lakewood, CA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 5:45 pm resting of the wrist
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AJ wrote:
| Quote: |
you can still move your arm the same way.what it does is supply a support when necessary.
Musical experience does not equate to an understanding of physiology and ergonomics. Listen to Johnee he clearly has a better understanding of this. |
Well, uhhh, yea! I know you can still move your arm the same way. I'm talking about the habitual wrist-resters who play from the rest.
And I don't have much experience in in music or ergonomics. But I was taught how to hold my pickin hand in the proper fashion, resulting in proper pick angle and attack. Whether or not it's good for my body. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 9:33 pm Re: resting of the wrist
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| Kevin Greenberg wrote: |
AJ wrote:
| Quote: |
you can still move your arm the same way.what it does is supply a support when necessary.
Musical experience does not equate to an understanding of physiology and ergonomics. Listen to Johnee he clearly has a better understanding of this. |
Well, uhhh, yea! I know you can still move your arm the same way. I'm talking about the habitual wrist-resters who play from the rest.
And I don't have much experience in in music or ergonomics. But I was taught how to hold my pickin hand in the proper fashion, resulting in proper pick angle and attack. Whether or not it's good for my body. |
Ding ding ding!! welcome to over use injury city!! There is no proper way to do it. it's an arbitray method that someone came up with and it became dogma in total ignroance of what is appropriate for each individual.
By embracing a universal technique and practicing it as dogma and especially not caring whther it is good for your body, spells disaster.
I studied very traditional classical guitar technique at the new England Conservatory of Music as well as The Berklee College of Music and the most important thing i have learned is that one man's proper method is another's disaster. Following blindly a technique
someone who was proclaimed a steel guitar authority by history does not mean they know how to teach the very best technique. a good musician AND teacher respects their body and especially a pro musician should know that proper technique is one that is balanced between execution and safety. There is a reason that there are so many artist oriented occupational therapists. many think the way you do. Execution regardless of potential damage. |
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Kevin Greenberg
From:
Lakewood, CA
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Posted 5 Oct 2008 5:08 am
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| Sorry, I don't believe in the "play it however you want" philosophy. It's SOUND regardless of potential damage. And the reason that "dogma" is there, is so you can get that sound. Almost everyone either holds their picking hand in the traditional manner, or some very slight variation of it. So it's not just the technique of one steel guitar authority. It's the technique of almost ALL of them. Therefore it IS the best technique, whether you like it or not. It's not like there's hundreds of ways to fingerpick a steel. There's only a few. If you feel like scratching the strings with the side edges of your picks and getting a crappy tone, be my guest. But if your picks are hitting the strings right, then you yourself are subscribing in some way to this "dogma". And your musical education does not apply here. |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Oct 2008 4:05 pm
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| Kevin Greenberg wrote: |
| It's SOUND regardless of potential damage. |
Sorry but, that is just about the stupidest destructive statement I have ever heard. Please never ever teach anyone ever. You endanger other instrumentalist by even expressing a statement such as that.
My education in music as well as traditional technique (in classical guitar which is completely more complex and experienced in getting a SOUND than steel)as well as ergonomics and body mechanics and actual experience with damage allows me to make an educated assessment. Not just follow blindly like a zombie. You can achieve sound with safety.Dogma exists because of mob mentality. just because, a 100 people do it a certain way does not mean it is the best and most thought out way. |
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