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Topic: Problem Solved! - Question for Machine-Shop Guys |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:13 pm |
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Can any of you clever machine-shop-designer guys think of an acceptable way to put a 'joint' into a pedal rack? Here's the situation: my Millenium D-10 weighs under the airlines' 50-lb limit in the Wheel-EZE case as long as I leave out the pedal rack. Unfortunately, the pedal rack doesn't fit in any normal sized suitcase, so when I fly to shows and gigs, my second piece of luggage, other than my steel, now has to be another Wheel-EZE case, only because it's long enough to hold the pedal rack separately from the guitar. Now, that means that my clothes, CDs, and everything else I take along has to go into that 2nd Wheel-EZE case too, which is not ideal; I'd rather use a regular suitcase, if I can figure out a way to get the pedal rack into one.
So, I'm wondering... is there some way to divide the pedal rack into two pieces, lengthwise, so they'd fit into a regular suitcase? Or would that weaken the system too much and cause detuning when I press the pedals? I'm thinking it wouldn't even have to be in the middle (more detuning if there?), but could be just lopping off the last 6-8 inches in front of the volume pedal, and reassembling the 2 pieces together once at the gig. Or would that still be weak and cause detuning?
Whaddayasay fellers?
Thanks,
J'beaux
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
Last edited by Jim Cohen on 14 Oct 2008 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:22 pm
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With absolutely no expertise to substantiate my claim, I do believe that a clever craftsman could rig something. Either a hinge & latch so you could fold back those last few inches on themselves or a way that you could telescope-slide those few inches into the rest of the rack. Intriguing thinking. (And since i am not this clever craftsman I speak of, all these ideas would require is faith. If you stop believing, the rack will collapse.)
btw---a soft gun case will hold the rack. Could you carry it on?....yeah, I know, carrying a gun case onto an airplane....but still... |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:36 pm
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Thanks, Jon, and you quickly anticipated that I would prefer not to be the guy carrying the gun case onto the plane. Actually, regardless of what case I tried to carry it on, I'm concerned that airport security would confiscate it, or at least make me check it, now as a 3rd piece of luggage for the extra $50. Game over.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:45 pm
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Jim,
I am not able to answer your question exactly, but when i fly home to the U.K, i put the pedal rods, Legs, pick and bar, and volume pedal in another suitcase with my clothes.The clothes are nothing more than padding really, My other suitcase has the rear wheels on it so i can drag the steel in one hand and the suitcase in the other to even out the weight. I got through both ends without any heat from the airlines, but the weight limit might be less for USA domestic flights, you probably know more about that than me
Last time i flew home to the U.K my limit was 70LBS, in the case i got the double neck down to 55lbs with all the listed above items taken out.[Steel in case].
I play single neck these days for that portable reason. Just a thought from one of us who has,had the discomfort of travelling with the steel, Gosh it's a pain travelling with a steel guitar 
I think you are onto a great idea jim! 
Last edited by Larry Bressington on 9 Oct 2008 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:53 pm
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Thanks Larry. Yes, I too can put the legs, volume pedal, etc. into a suitcase. But unfortunately, the pedal rack is too long for the suitcase and still throws the weight of the steel slightly over 50 lbs, which is the domestic weight limit in the US.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 1:56 pm
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| Ahhhhhhh, i smell a single neck Carter coming on, now you have a legitimate excuse to buy one! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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William Matthews
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:11 pm
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| You could always buy a bigger suitcase. The ones that have the handle and wheels come to mind. They come pretty tall. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:20 pm
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Jim, I would not alter the Millenium pedal bar because of the value of it. Rather, I would make or have made another pedal bar (aluminum channel) that would fit the guitar and mount the pedals to it, cut it just past the last pedal, and make an aluminum channel bolted to the short end of the pedal bar so the channel fits over the end of the longer part and have 4 bolts with wing nuts that hold the "splice" together. I'm not sure how much is involved to attach the pedals or how the pedal bar attaches to the legs but if those can be worked out, it should be fine. You could use the stock MSA pedal bar and hack it up but that does not seem like the logical thing to do.
Jerry |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:27 pm
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Jim, it's really no problem to have the pedal-bar fold. All you need is some sort of hinge and a sliding locking (splint) device. Any remaining weakness in the system coud be solved by having "stub" floor supports at the center of the bar.
Of course, the easiest solution is to buy a steel and case that's under the 50 lb limit to start with. My "Mill" is about 51-52 lbs. in the case. If I had to drop a pound or two, I'd pack the pedal rods in my carry-on, and leave the vinyl cover at home.
Done deal. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:35 pm
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| Jimbo, with my Zums the legs and rods bag weighs more (or is similar in weight) than the pedal bar, so I put the leg bag in my suitcase! I fly to Aussie each year so this helps a lot - having a someone else fly with you to split the weight is also helpful!! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:58 pm
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Thanks guys.
Willliam, there is no hard-sided suitcase that is long enough for the pedal rack. I've searched in every store and online. They just don't make them that long. There might be some kind of 'duffle bag' case with wheels and handles but I don't want one of those; won't protect my CDs etc. enough.
Paddy, I do already remove the legs (which are practically weightless) and pedal rods and put them in my separate case, so that's already handled. On a Millenium, the pedal rack weighs more than the legs. Different from a Zum (or my old Fessy).
Donny, I don't know of any D-10 (with my setup of 9+ that would weigh under 50 lbs in the case; do you? Is your guitar a D-10? Probably I have too many Pedals and KLs but I ain't planning to give any of them up any time soon. Oh, and I don't take along any vinyl cover.
Jerry, thanks for your advice to create a separate one rather than messing with the original one. Maybe I could get an extra set of pedals from MSA and mount them onto the new hinged-thingy, so I wouldn't have to touch the original one at all... Then I'd use the original one for drive-gigs and the replacement for fly-dates.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 3:30 pm
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How much money is the extra weight? Thats a beautiful steel, it's something to think about
Last edited by Larry Bressington on 9 Oct 2008 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:17 pm
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Jim
If you are traveling to a steel guitar show, maybe you can borrow legs, pedal rods, and pedal rack when you get there.
BTW my pedal racks fit easily into my suitcase. The racks are only about 33" long and I see plenty of suitcases online that are big enough. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:24 pm
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| Does the length of the pedals fit in the suitcase? If it does then a slip fit, male/female gizmo might work. The female part on the pedals and the male part on the ends. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:33 pm
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Jim, my D10 guitar is only 8+7. I do have all 4-hole pullers, though (which probably adds a pound). I also have a lightweight Dell case (with no heavy wheels and mounts on it).
How much are you over, weight-wise?
Did you specify the ultra-light CFC legs? Do you have the titanium pull rods? (This was one of the guitar's biggest selling points, for me. Half the weight of stainless, stronger than stainless, and also about half the thermal expansion/contraction of stainless!)
Unfortunately, I believe most buyers probably aren't savvy enough to request all the the right features.  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 6:13 pm
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Larry, it's $25 each way. $50 roundtrip adds up over the course of the year (I do a lot of fly-dates).
Earnest, I have no need to borrow legs or pedal rods; those fit fine into any suitcase. I have borrowed a pedal rack one time from another Millenium player who I knew would be at a show, but I have 9 pedals so I couldn't use the 9th, since his rack was for only 8. Not a great solution for me.
My pedal rack is also 33 inches. Where are you finding a hard-sided suitcase large enough to handle that (even diagonally)?? I've searched high and low, in dozens of stores, catalogs and online sites. Would love a brand name and/or model. That could solve my whole problem. But it's gotta be hard-sided.
Chas, I'm not sure what you mean about 'the length of the pedals'. They're only, what, about 6" long each? They'll fit into anything. But perhaps you're suggesting that I could remove the pedals from the rack and put the pedals into my suitcase, eliminating enough weight to keep the rack itself with the guitar and stay under 50 lbs? That's a cool idea...
Donny, the weight of the legs is irrelevant. I don't keep them with the guitar and, anyway, their featherweight. I have a Wheel-EZE case, which I've got to believe is lighter than your Dell. And I don't know if I have titanium rods or not. How would I tell?
Thanks,
JC
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rick Nicklas
From:
Verona, Mo. (deceased)
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 6:24 pm
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Lay your case on a scale and keep adding helium balloons and closing the lid until you have relieved the required amount of weight.  |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 7:47 pm
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Jim,It seems to me that the pedal rack can be split in half somewhere close to the center and then some sort of custom made hinge installed so it could fold backwards in half.The way that I visualize it when folded in half the two flat parts touch back to back,and the pedals are on the outside like spider legs.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 9:19 pm
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| Quote: |
| Chas, I'm not sure what you mean about 'the length of the pedals'. |
I probably should have said width, meaning pedal A to pedal 8.
Back when you were talking about cutting your pedal rack to be hinged, and I don't like the hinge idea unless there's a way to lock it back in place.
I just saw Stu's post. Cutting them in the center would make it fold up the best. The center is also the weakest part, from a stress perspective. If there were sliding bolts, like the half round ones used on doors, on the top and maybe the bottom of the pedal rack and the hinge was very tight. Something like that might work. It would look funky, but if they're looking at your pedal rack, they aren't listening to you play.
I was thinking that the pedals should keep their configuration, as a unit. On the older guitars, there is a cold roll steel axle, suspended between a couple pillow blocks, that all the pedals are on. If the width of the pedals, meaning width from left to right, pedal A to pedal 8, fits in the suitcase then the excess could be cut off and reattached with a gizmo.
BTW, I saw the photo of you in the Nudie Cohen thread. You're better looking than I expected, from the Groucho thumbnail. |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 10:07 pm
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Jim - Can you send me an email pic of the rear of the rack as assembled when playing? Gotta see how the pedals are mounted to the rack first. This CAN be done!!! The rack can be folded in the middle, and with a few calculations, the pedals can 'miss' each other when in the 'folded' position.
PRR |
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Russ Wever
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 9 Oct 2008 10:55 pm
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| Quote: |
Any remaining weakness in the
system coud be solved by having "stub"
floor supports at the center of the bar.
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But when ya 'mash' on the pedals, the
force that is realized by the pedalbar
is 'upward' rather than towards the floor.
~Russ |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 10 Oct 2008 7:00 am
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Another way to do it is to hinge the pedal rack at the bottom:
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2008 7:33 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| I have no need to borrow legs or pedal rods; those fit fine into any suitcase. |
Still, legs can be heavy and it might save the overweight fee.
| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| I have borrowed a pedal rack one time ..[but].. his rack was for only 8. |
(stifling smartass comment about needing only 2 pedals...)
| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| My pedal rack is also 33 inches. Where are you finding a hard-sided suitcase large enough to handle that (even diagonally)?? I've searched high and low, in dozens of stores, catalogs and online sites. Would love a brand name and/or model. That could solve my whole problem. |
For example, Google Shopping finds:
http://www.luggageonline.com/product.cfm?product_ID=1403
Here is a page:
http://www.luggageonline.com/productlist.cfm?catID=11
I have flown with my 33.25" Franklin rack in my approx 29 x 21 suitcase but it is tight, so that 31 inch long model would be a safer bet. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 10 Oct 2008 11:51 am
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| I sure wouldn't even consider cutting a pedal board in half, or in cutting it at all. That would simply be Inventing Problems, that didn't previously exist. |
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