| Author |
Topic: 1 st string raise |
Greg Wisecup
From:
Troy, Ohio
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 8:21 am |
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What is the standard kl for this raise? My guitar has it on rkl and that also lowers my 5 th string. I don't like it there. I think it should go on the rkr. Am I going to hurt myself with this change. Is this a more standard place for it? Thanks, Greg
_________________
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Derby D-10/Steelers Choice/
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/Nashville 400
RV-3/ Zoom MS-50G
As long as I'm down in the mix I'm Fantastic! |
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Wayne Wallett
From:
Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 8:34 am Ist String Raise Knee Lever
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Hello Greg,
Most common set up is RKL raise 1, 2, and lower 6th full tone. Putting raise on RKR might not play well with 2nd string lower 1/2 & full tone if you have that on your guitar. Many lower the 5th & 10th full tone on #4 Franklin pedal and use with the RKL 6th lower full tone. I also lower 5 & 10 a half tone on vertical LKV. Hope this helps. I'm sure others will chime in with more info.
Good Luck,
Wayne |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 9:30 am
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On my Blanton I have the first string raised 1/2 step F#-G on my RKR which also works my 2nd string Eb/D/C# I think that the half stop works of off pressure from the first string...It actually works well.On My Desert Rose I raise my first string F#/G# whole step while lowering the 6th string G#-F# and that's on my LKR.I was thinking about getting the first string to raise twice G/G# with a half stop,Maybe PF does that? Not sure. 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 9:53 am
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| i raise string 1 F# to G# along w: string 2 Eb to E & string 7 F# to G on LKR |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 10:23 am
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| Mines the same as Crowbears. |
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Al Udeen
From:
maple grove mn usa
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 10:36 am Flame material
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| I may be the only one with this change? Being I lower my E's on RKL I raise my 1st a whole step & lower my 2nd a whole step on LKR I also lower my 2nd a half step on RKR, This eliminates the Impossible way to play the 1/2&whole change on RKR in tune! Sorry It just cant be done! Hal & Weldon found that out over 40 years ago! |
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Greg Wisecup
From:
Troy, Ohio
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 10:45 am
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I'm not sure where I got the idea it should be on the rkr except poss. Robbie Turners vid of Bitter they are. There's a part in it where he uses it and when I do it the 5 th string seems to get in the way... as it's being lowered and doe's NOT sound good while I am making that unison lick. That 5 th string has to be dead silent or it ruins the whole thing. Can I get by moving it to the rkr without messing up the 2 nd string half stop that's on that lever? 
_________________
Derby SD-10 4&5 Black!(duh)/
Derby D-10/Steelers Choice/
Goodrich 120/ 2- Katana Boss 100's
/Nashville 400
RV-3/ Zoom MS-50G
As long as I'm down in the mix I'm Fantastic! |
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Darren James
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 11:37 am
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| I raise the 10th F# to G# with LKL, and raise F# to G with LKV, along with the 7th string. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 11:55 am
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I have my 7th string & first sting both doing half step. nice move if you want to do alot of haggard atuff. I still have my 6 sting lower whole/ split on left, knee inside still you get some 7ths there as well.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:00 pm
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| The first string raise (either to G or G#) should NOT be on the same lever that lowers your 5th string. Plain and simple. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:07 pm Re: 1 st string raise
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| Greg Wisecup wrote: |
| Am I going to hurt myself with this change. |
Only if the string breaks. 
But seriously, I agree with others that you should not lower your 5th string on the same lever that raises your 1st. You really do lose a lot of the benefit of the 1st string raise if you can't use it with the pedaled 5th string.
Many people lower their 6th string on that lever. That's a change that makes sense.
_________________
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Greg Wisecup
From:
Troy, Ohio
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:11 pm
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That's what I'm sayin Richard. LKL doesn't sound like a bad idea. I can see doing that in my head.  Thanks guys. I'm gonna make a move. Greg
_________________
Derby SD-10 4&5 Black!(duh)/
Derby D-10/Steelers Choice/
Goodrich 120/ 2- Katana Boss 100's
/Nashville 400
RV-3/ Zoom MS-50G
As long as I'm down in the mix I'm Fantastic!
Last edited by Greg Wisecup on 5 Sep 2008 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:13 pm
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1st string raise is on RKR for me.
I dont beleive the 5 string is affected by this change on my guitar, but since i am clueless as to how the 1st string rasie is used, i never use the lever...ever.
I am trying desperately to understand the 2nd string lower, so until i get somewhere with that I a not even thinking about that 1st string change./ many have patiently tried ot explain it to me , but I am still puzzled by it... but thats for another thread.
anyway, 1st string raise on RKR (I have heard its more commonly on RKL), no movement on the 5 string from that change. |
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Chet Wilcox
From:
Illinois, USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:25 pm
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| Ben. Play any of the major string combinations, 345. 456, 568. 5810. add the 2 nd string. that will make a major 7th chord, then use the lever that lowers your 2nb string and it will, resolve to s dominant 7th, nice passing tone |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:46 pm
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| Thanks Chet. I need to start my own thread for the 2nd string lower. I am constantly hijacking others threads with this topic and tho people have been very patient in trying to explain it to me, I am still not understanding why it is considered such an important change. It still seems only marginally useful to me. I know I am missing an important peice of the puzzle, but as I said...I need to start my own thread and quit derailing other peoples. |
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Aki Paivinen
From:
Finland
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 12:50 pm
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| I have ended up with this in my D10: RKL raises 1st a whole and lowers 6th a whole. RKR lowers 2nd a whole and raises 7th a half. So far so good. |
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Chet Wilcox
From:
Illinois, USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Sep 2008 1:11 pm
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| Ben, the Major 7th choed is the prettyist chord in Music, and then the 2nd string lowering resolvis it to a Dominent 7th, also it is used as a passing tone |
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Greg Wisecup
From:
Troy, Ohio
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 9:53 am
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I did change my 1st string raise from rkl to the rkr that lowers the 2 nd string with the half stop and there is no interference or issues whatsoever. I did however loose one of the cotter pins that secures the rod to the bellcrank. It is the worlds smallest cotter pin. Now with that change I can make that 5431 unison without any issues. Greg
_________________
Derby SD-10 4&5 Black!(duh)/
Derby D-10/Steelers Choice/
Goodrich 120/ 2- Katana Boss 100's
/Nashville 400
RV-3/ Zoom MS-50G
As long as I'm down in the mix I'm Fantastic! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 11:58 am
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full tone 1 raise belongs with the 1/2 tone 2 raise and 7 raise. Not with a 2 lower , 5 lower or 6 lower.
Yes many Steels place the 6 lower on the same lever as 1 full tone raise, I see this as a huge conflict of notes. |
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Greg Wisecup
From:
Troy, Ohio
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 12:22 pm
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I don't have the 6 th string lower on my guitar. Is this a common lower? Greg
_________________
Derby SD-10 4&5 Black!(duh)/
Derby D-10/Steelers Choice/
Goodrich 120/ 2- Katana Boss 100's
/Nashville 400
RV-3/ Zoom MS-50G
As long as I'm down in the mix I'm Fantastic! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 12:30 pm
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The 6th string full-step lower is very common among people who use a plain 6th string. It's harder to do with a wound string because it takes too much travel. Since I use a wound 6th, I don't have that change.
_________________
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 12:57 pm
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| Some have asked about lowering the 6th (G#) string to F#. That's because, when used with the E-Eb lever, it gives you a simple and highly useful change. Here's how it goes: one of your knee levers that pushes toward the "inside" lowers your E's to Eb. Now, set up the other "inside" lever to lower the 6th string to F# (yes, you'll then have both string 6 and string 7 sounding F# at the same time). Then, push both of those levers in together at the same time. What happens? You get the V chord! Simple, right? But, so what? Well, now you can go from the I chord (open) to the IV chord (A+B down) to the V chord (both knees in) without moving the bar! And it sounds great. Put another way, if you're playing in the key of A (5th fret), you can go from A to D to E and never move the bar. It gets better. You can then even go from that "inside-knees-V-chord" to the V7 chord (perhaps passing back to the I chord) by letting go of one lever, holding the other in and pushing the B pedal down. I set up all my guitars with this change. I use it all the time. Very simple, very useful, and very nice. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 11:55 pm
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| Quote: |
I don't have the 6 th string lower on my guitar. Is this a common lower? Greg
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Out of my 6 levers on E9th, this has to be my 3rd most used. It is great for using with the lever that lowers the E's to D#. This gives you another position 2 fret down from the A&B position. Example. A chord, strings 3,4,5 at fret 12, A&B pedals pressed, drop 2 frets and hit the 6th lower to F# and the E's to D# and you have an A chord there too. You get some neat melody lines using the 6th string moving between a 5th tone (lever engaged), 6th tone (no lever), and dom 7th with B pedal all the while keeping your e's lowered. A lot of melody chord work there. Look at the song "Look At Us".
[tab]
3__
4__6----4---4----4b
5__6A---4---4A---4
6__6----4---4----4bb
[\tab]
This is the first line of the verse "Look at us...)
I've had this lever since my first steel in 1971.
It also give you the same sound and movement as using your A&B pedals and releasing the A pedal on strings 3,4 5. This gives you that (what I call ) "moving 3rd" sound so common to pedal steel playing. This does the same where it lowers the 3rd tone on string 6. Same sound.
| Tab: |
4__12____12____12
5__12A---12----12A
6__12b___12b___12B
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[tab]
5__5___5_____5
6__5---5bb---5
7
8__5___5_____5
[/tab}
Same lick in A, just in different pedal positions. |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 9 Sep 2008 1:28 am
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I have my 1st raise and 6 lower on LKR.I kind of like it as I can get a ninth on any chord in open position including a minor and gives you the option to to minor pentatonic stuff within the same bar position.Plus all the 6 sounding chords like min 6,7s,+ etc in open pos.Dont know if the best way to have them though
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www.myspace.com/benspickin |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 9 Sep 2008 2:01 am
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6 lower is a very powerful pull, I think all Steels should have it, I just don't think it should live with the 1string full tone raise.
I use the 1 raise ( whole tone ) with basically every combination of grips, , any A,or B , AB pedal ,AF combo. Hard to use the 1 raise with AB when the 6 drop is on the same lever.
just my take
tp |
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