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Topic: Tuning the Jeff Newman tuning on a push-pull |
Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 3:16 pm |
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| When tuning the Newman tuning on a push-pull do you also tune the changer to that tuning. For instance the fifth string would be 442 open and when the finger is pulled all the way the tuning would be 438. Is this correct, or would all tunings be at 440 and then tune string 5 to 442 and raised tune it to 438, after which you would tune the endplate to 442. I am wondering. Tuning it to the exact Newman numbers makes the most sense to me. |
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Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 3:28 pm
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Uh-oh. 
_________________
Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 3:37 pm
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| That tells me a lot. I want to know the numbers used for tuning the changer. It's not a which tuning question but rather a mechanics question. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 3:49 pm
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| My understanding is that you tune a push/pull changer to where you want, so tune it to the chart, if that is what you want the final tuning to be. Then you set up the pulls and pushes and any new strings to let the changer get that chart tuning. However, the Newman chart was designed from Lloyd Green's Sho-Bud all-pull. So the Newman chart might not be precise for a push/pull, or any other guitar for that matter. It's a starting point, but your ears will be a better guide. Also, you will not be able to hear cabinet drop (to the extent that there is any) when tuning the changer. So you may have to go back and tweak the changer a little once you hear what happens with the whole undercarriage set up. The reason I mention this is because the Newman chart appears to have some compensation for cabinet drop, and this will be a little different on every instrument. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 4:54 pm
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Tune the raise's with the tuning keys.
Tune the lower's & open notes using the screws at the changer endplate. Standard PP tuning procedure applies here, just use Jeff's chart as your target numbers and your good to go. I have been using the original chart with the "E's" @ 440 since Jeff put it out there back in the 70's on all 3 of my PP's.
JE:-)> |
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Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 5:10 pm
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I'm sorry, Craig. I've been lambasted in the past for even broaching this subject, and it's been the source of many a heated thread. I over-react now when I see "442" and "tempered" and "justified," and "Newman tuning," and...you know.
_________________
Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 5:44 pm
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| Jeff Newman's tuning charts will not work on every guitar. You need to learn how to tune by ear and take account for your guitar's particular cabinet drop, which on a push pull may be "0". I learned this the hard way. It was the best advise that I ever got. It came from Paul Franklin. One you learn to tune by ear you can take the readings off the meter. I know, its not easy. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 5:52 pm
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| This sounds what I was looking for. The reason for the question was that if a push pull is set up for a A-440 tuning all the way across, then some of the raises that don't make 440 would cause the fingers not to bottom out. The only way it would work, is to have any raise or lower bottom out at whatever number that string is tuned to. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 6:01 pm
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| Craig A Davidson wrote: |
| This sounds what I was looking for. The reason for the question was that if a push pull is set up for a A-440 tuning all the way across, then some of the raises that don't make 440 would cause the fingers not to bottom out. The only way it would work, is to have any raise or lower bottom out at whatever number that string is tuned to. |
Actually, you should be able to tune a push/pull to any temperament that you like. Any string, any raise, and any lower are adjustable to your taste. The hard part is deciding which temperament you like. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 6:13 pm
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| But whatever the number that is what the finger should max out to. Right? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 7:06 pm
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Yes. That's the purpose in 'tuning the changer'. You will have pedal and lever stops but they should be synchronized to the end of changer travel. That provides a very solid feel and prevents the mechanism from trying to pull beyond the stop.
As others have pointed out, the temperament is up to you -- sounds like you want the Newman E442 chart. That should work fine. Remember you tune the changer to the maximum raise and the maximum lower. Other pulls are tuned underneath with half tone tuners.
So the answer to your question, as I understand it, is that you tune the changer to whatever the Newman chart says for the maximum raise and lower and you set your pedal and lever stops to allow those pulls to completely engage. You tune to the tuner setting listed for the raised or lowered note.
So, for example you tune the 5th STRING to 442 and you tune the CHANGER to 438, because that's the maximum raise on the 5th string. If you raised 5 from B to D, that would be the maximum raise. You'll do the same for the max lower. If you have the B to A change on 5 that will be the max lower, otherwise it will be B to A#(Bb).
Hope this helps.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 9:15 pm
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This is a question for BOBBE.
Mister " work on it all week
so I can play on the weekend "
BOBBE !! 
_________________
Bill |
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