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Topic: Zirconia bars - want one? |
Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 5:47 am |
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I do.
You remember me contacting and running all the info by the engineers at an industrial ceramics facility ... for a JB bar.
Things looked good till I showed the Mrs. the $5K "start up/minimum order fee".
They projected them to weigh about an oz less than a Dunlop 2 3/4" x 3/4".
Maybe if the PSG guys proceed and are successful ... they'll make a run of JB sized zirconium oxide bars ... ???
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Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 6:42 am
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If it happens, put me down for one - make that two.  |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 9:53 am
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| I'd go for that too, if it ever comes about. Seems there is a priority for the bigger PSG bars so it'll likely be awhile. If I had the 5K I'd be all over getting a pile of them made, seems like a no brainer. |
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Craig Stenseth
From:
Naperville, Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 10:40 am
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Another magic feather? :-)
I don't know what to get - LT's handout from Joliet suggests using a bar with a length in between the length of the 1st and 2nd fingers, which for me is longer than the JB-approved one I'm using now. But then LT also says not to use something just because someone else does. Are these things pretty fragile (i.e. what happens when they hit the floor?). |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 11:08 am
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What differences in tone and manueverability do you guy's that are interested in the zirc's perceive to have, or have found when using a bar substantialy lighter than what you normally use.
I used the Dunlop 'JB' bar that he picked out for me at Harry's for years, until I got my 'Barney' Dunlop bar that is bigger/heavier and discovered it gave a vast tone improvement as well as rejuvinating my vibrato that had gone AWOL, due to overpowering the smaller bar.
The larger bar just improved everything for me. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 12:57 pm
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Zirconium oxide is an extremely hard ceramic material with excellent lubricity ...
It is the material of choice in hip replacement (as the articulating surface) for this very reason. .
A very high quality material ...
Personally, its mass is a non-issue ... I spend most of my time playing with a bar that "beefs in" at 70 grams (about 2.5 oz).
The problem is ... it's extremely difficult to machine after it has been fired ... so the prep/shaping work has to be extensive ...
Hence its high price.
As far as personal preferences on dimensions and mass ... to each his own.
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Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 09 November 2006 at 02:34 PM.] |
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Harry Dietrich
From:
Robesonia, Pennsylvania, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 2:27 pm
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If they made one .750 x 3.00 I'd take one.
But I think they all will be "lunkers."
Harry |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 5:20 pm
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I'm in for the Zarconium bar.
A bar 2 3/4" X 3/4" = OK
2 7/8" X 3/4" = Better
3" X 3/4" = Best
Aloha, 
Don |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 5:23 pm
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I talked to L.T. Zinn about his Zirconia bar three years ago. At that time, he said the guy wasn't manufacturing any, and if he did, it would cost almost $300.00
I didn't hear any significant change in tone to justify dropping that kind of money, and even for $200.00, you'd be stupid to buy without trying first. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 5:41 pm
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| I'm not a believer in the "magic" of way-out tone bars. Byrd didn't use one, and McIntire probably never heard of one in those days. Although LT is a great player, I can't say his Epiphone would sound any different with a steel bar. |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 5:57 pm
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I like the non-metal bars because they seem to have a more mellow tone. A lot of the high end sizzle is removed.
The Black Phoenix are nice but they only last about a year for me before they start to chip.
I just bought a Delrin bar in white. Dave Giegerich uses one as does Jeff Strouse. I like it but it's a bit too light.
The Zirconia seems to be the the perfect cross between the Black Phoenix and the Delrin.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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Curt Langston
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 6:53 pm
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| Quote: |
| A lot of the high end sizzle is removed. |
Yeah. And a lot of sustain. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 8:09 pm
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| Where are the Delrin bars? Who sells them? I am very interested. |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 9:54 pm
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| I've owned a zirc for the past 4 or 5 years and it's the best bar I've ever used. I also have both the Black and also Red Rajahs plus an assortment of regular steel bars...the zirc, as mentioned, is da best. JMHO. |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2006 10:40 pm
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Delrin is just a name of one of the latest plastic technology. I couldn't find any manufactures making a steel bar with this plastic; you'd have to ask Dave or Jeff.
Keoki, can you give us your opinion as to what makes your zirconia bar better than the Rajah's or other bars in your collection? Thanks. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 1:07 am
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While we are waiting on Keoki ---
The zirconium bars are said to be harder than steel, they do not break nor wear out, and the glide over the strings is smooooother.
Aloha,
Don[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 10 November 2006 at 01:09 AM.] |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 5:29 am
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I don't understand the negativity encountered above and over in the PSG thread.
Certainly ... no one is suggesting "you" buy one ... or that these have any "magical" properties ...
It's simply good material science.
How dare that A. Rickenbacher make a guitar out of plastic ... they can't possibly have the sustain or resonance of good 'ol wood ...
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Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 6:26 am
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I'm holding out for the Unobtamium bar. 
Speaking of Delrin. I read in Andy V's book about Delrin bars that had been drilled and lead poured inside. Is that similar to what you're talking about Gerald?
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Dana Duplan
From:
Ramona, CA
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 6:41 am
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I love my Zirc bar. I got the 7/8" from the last batch. I've not gotten on well with 3/4" bars, and metal 7/8" bars have always been too heavy for me. The Zirc is the perfect weight for me, and I like the sound--still plenty of sustain, easy to grip, and smooth. It's the main bar I use on my Tricone too. Orville did, however, suggest I put it away when playing Dobro when we did a workshop--but I take it back out when he's not looking!
DD |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 6:45 am
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Gene Wilson of Mountain View, Arkansas is the guy who makes these Delrin bars.
Apparently Gene has had some health problems as of late and I got one of his
last bars. He may be thinking of doing another run soon - contact him.
His email: dobroer@ozarkisp.net
I don't think mine is filled with lead, it's pretty light. I like the tone but
have to use a bit more downward pressure with my left hand to get a decent sound.
The first day I had the bar I hated it because of the weight. The second day I started to like it more, this after playing with it for a half hour or so.
Now after a few days I can see where it will be a nice adddition to my arsenal of bars.
Like any other bar - if this were the only one I had - after a short period of
time I would learn how to get music out of it.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 10 November 2006 at 06:46 AM.] |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 11:33 am
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| There is really nothing newabout the Zirc or Delrin or Phoenix bars |
That says it all.
Cost aside, I can't see buying any product unless it will give one a definite edge in their playing or tone.
I can't see buying one either just for the sake of the weight factor. Surely there must have a bunch of other bars on the market that weigh in at the same, or very close to this one.
I'm with Bill Creller in this one. A lot of great steel guitar music that we all listen to was made from greats using just a basic bar, and they were able to achieve tone that we all refer to as: to die for.
I'm not suggesting here that no one buy one, but it certainly won't make you a Dick McIntire, Andy Iona or Jerry Byrd overnight if you do. |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2006 12:11 pm
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Derrick Mau writes:
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| I'm not suggesting here that no one buy one, but it certainly won't make you a Dick McIntire, Andy Iona or Jerry Byrd overnight if you do. |
I'm sure everyone agrees with you on that one Derrick. And you can say that for most anything. A Marshall stack won't make you sound like Jimi Hendrix. An expensive camera won't make you Ansel Adams, etc. etc.
At the 2004 HSGA Joliet Convention an original frypan owned by Dick McIntire showed up. I played it. Guess what? I sounded like Gerald Ross playing steel guitar. No magic mojo, no parting of the clouds, no magic feather.
Magic feather (def.) - In the Disney movie Dumbo - Dumbo couldn't fly unless he was holding the magic feather. All people in the arts are constantly looking for the magic feather. does this explain the abuse of drugs and alcohol?...hmmm
I just like the non-metal bars because they have mellower tone.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 10 November 2006 at 12:51 PM.] |
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