| Author |
Topic: Heartaches By The Number - With ToneSuck In Line |
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 12:26 pm |
|
I've recorded the last 4 songs with the new Hilton light weight volume pedal and it works great. Just to compare I went back to the Goodrich Model 120 ToneSucker  pot pedal so you all can see how the pot pedal "sucks" all the sound out of the music. All I did was remove the Hilton, insert the Goodrich 120 (with a Dunlop HotPotz replacement pot) and removed the Guyatone MD3. No buffer amp, just the guitar, Goodrich pedal, Boss RV-5 and Fender Steel king amp.
I started out with some upper fret parts, then switched to C6 then back to some lower sounding E9th stuff. At 2:22 I played something retro and close to the original version.
Heartaches By The Number
Greg
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 23 Apr 2008 4:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
 |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 2:17 pm
|
|
Greg, ol' buddy, I really wish you luck. You see, Regardless of what you (or anyone else) says, too much great stuff was recorded with "tone-sucking pot pedals" to convince everyone that they are the problem.
Let me list just a few classics you might be familiar with...
"Way To Survive"...Buddy Emmons (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Together Again"...Tom Brumley (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"I'll Come Runnin'"...Weldon Myrick (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Steel And Strings"...Jimmy Day (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Waltz Across Texas"...Buddy Charleton (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Motel Time Again"...Lloyd Green (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"She's Actin' Single"...Pete Drake (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Teach Your Children"...Jerry Garcia (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"15 Years Ago"...John Hughey (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"Honky-Tonk Downstairs...Rusty Young (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
"There Stands The Glass"...Bud Isaacs (with a tone-sucking pot pedal)
Now, I could go on...almost endlessly - but there's really no point in belaboring (or restating) the obvious. |
|
|
|
Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 2:28 pm
|
|
The key to using pot pedals is using a good buffer before the volume pedal! On my guitar pedalboard I use the boost side of a ZVex Box of Rock. It's first in line and always on, set to unity. If I use a pot pedal with my PSG, I prefer the Xotic RC Booster, again, set to unity. For a cheaper solution, I've used a Digitech Bad Monkey and been satisfied.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 2:34 pm
|
|
| Donny, ol' buddy, based on his input in the recent "Volume Pedal Question" thread, I do believe Greg was being sarcastic here. |
|
|
|
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 3:44 pm
|
|
Donny, you indeed missed the point. I love my pot pedal!
No buffer is needed with a pot pedal! If you prefer one, that is fine, but it is not needed and I did not use one on the recording above. I watched Jim Murphy play through a Webb amp with Hank Thompson and of course with a pot pedal, up close between sets and back in the crowd, and that was the best sound I ever heard in my life.
I have a little Izzy buffer amp and I don't care for the way it's low impedance output overcomes the load impedance.
The other thing to consider is the difference in tone as the position of the pot pedal is varied. I usually play with my pedal centered in the middle of the stroke so the tone varies very little as the pedal is usually near that point. I may modulate I bit at times, but the tone difference at the full open and near full closed positions rarely gets heard.
Both the Goodrich with a HotPotz and the Hilton are truly great pedals. Both are smooth, reliable and can produce awesome sounds.
Greg |
|
|
|
David Hartley
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 3:48 pm Greg
|
|
I don't understand what you are trying to 'PROVE'.. The pedal question is resolved really.. As Donny says, we all grew up with the great old recordings and the great old licks and sound and everything else.... Yes, Hilton great, but yes, everything previous to that was great too.. Tom Brumleys everything he done was great, Lloyd, Buddy, Jay D, Doug, Russ, and all the great musicians/steelers ... so whats the thread proving? You gotta Hilton like me and love it?, and can get the same sound with a pot? I admire all your posts and clips, and links. Don't matter if you use a Fuzzy into a HH with no pedal and pipe grips as knee levers!, music is music and if its pleasant to the ears then it's nice!!.. With the greatest of respect Greg..
You forumites are great friends, and sometimes I think there's a WIND UP going on just to generate posting replys..
I can't wait to play my steel again. POT PEDAL, NO PEDAL or whatever..
It's all set-up... I have loads of ideas, and cant get out there in the studio at the moment with all whats going in here...
It sounds like you are taking your music and sound far too seriously..
As I say Greg, with sincere respect to you as it may be a SARKY thread anyway?..
Its got my response..
David Hartley |
|
|
|
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 4:20 pm
|
|
I think the thread is hilarious! I think this whole volume pedal thing is overblown. Either pedal can produce great tone. I COULD put 12 more smileys in the post to show more clearly that I was intent on having some fun with this! Well I am having fun with it. Everyone is just too serious about "gotta have this or that" to get good sound. I've heard totally awesome sounds from very diverse steel guitar setups.
Donny, you left out one of my favorite Paycheck/Green songs: Florence Jean (with a tonesucking pot pedal). I think that song would be great as an instrumental. Kind of obscure but nice chord changes. Tom Bath played it one year at the PSGA show.
        
sarky Definition sarky (sär′kē)
adjective sark′·ier, sark′·iest
Brit., Informal sarcastic
Yup, it is definitely "SARKY"
Greg
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 22 Apr 2008 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 4:53 pm
|
|
| Hey Greg wait till they come out with the new Gamma Ray volume pedals and then they'll be calling the Hilton a tone sucker. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 5:06 pm
|
|
I used my hilton pedal and about $250 worth of new latest and greatest cables at a gig and a I didn't like the sound. I changed back to my old pedal and old cables on the first break. I guess I wasn't use to having a perfectly clean sound with no tone loss.
I realized that that good tone that I liked so much was coming from my tone sucking volume pedal and tone sucking cables. |
|
|
|
Mike Shefrin
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 5:16 pm
|
|
| I have three volume pedals. A new Hilton pedal, an old Sho-Bud pedal with an Alan Bradley pot, and a Goodrich 120 with one of Tom Bradshaw's Dunlop pots in it. They all sound and feel different, but they're all excellent pedals. Greg, nice version of Heartaches. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 6:01 pm
|
|
| I couldn't get it downloaded till just now. Gave "Heartaches" a listen. Didn't see anything wrong with that tone. Great Job Greg. |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 7:26 pm
|
|
| Greg, Does your Li'l Izzy still work? I have an Izzy Plus that I bought in 1984 and it quit working at all probably ten years ago (yes, I know it has a battery!), and of course the innards are entirely encased in some epoxy-like substance to protect them from inquiring minds. I doubt if I'd like its effect any more anyway, with my current preferences in sound. |
|
|
|
Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 7:38 pm
|
|
I feel honored when I see anyone using my volume pedal. I love helping people if they ever need my help. Greg Cutshaw did an evaluation of steel guitar pedals a little while back that was amazing. Greg went into great detail, did a lot of work and study. Greg did this to help people. Greg has done a lot to help people playing a steel guitar. I am impressed by Greg's knowledge of electronics, and his facts always check out. More people should tell Greg Cutshaw--"THANKS"--for all the things he does to help steel players.
I love everyone on this forum. I consider Donny Hinson to be a good friend and I like to joke with Donny and a few of the other guys. NOW-Donny, let me explain why some people like the Hilton Pedal over other pedals. Bill Myrick, of Pea Ridge, Arkansas claims a lot more women smile at him during performances when he uses a Hilton Pedal. I had another steel player tell me his Hilton Pedal helped him grow hair on his bald head, when nothing else would work. Another fellow said the Hilton Pedal curled his hair and his wife loved it. I don't know who it was, maybe Terry Bethel, told me he noticed a lot more women wearing red lipstick in the audience when used the Hilton Pedal on the Mel Tillis Show.
It has been rumored the Hilton Pedal draws women like flys Donny. So be careful when and where you use a Hilton Pedal. Your friend Keith Hilton |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 22 Apr 2008 8:35 pm
|
|
Keith, if those are your claims for your product, I may need to ask for my money back!  |
|
|
|
David Hartley
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 12:25 am Hi All
|
|
You won't believe this, but I painted my pedal black and it sounds so much better..try it..!
David |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 3:12 am
|
|
I believe Gregs intentions were totally in humor.
Last edited by Tony Prior on 23 Apr 2008 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 4:26 am
|
|
The funniest thing I've read in a long time are all the responses either saying Greg was wrong or worrying about reactions when it was already established (by GREG!) that the whole thing was a joke.
Guys, some advice (because I've also been victimized by people's posting to reactions rather than what I actually said) - read the WHOLE thread before you post, lest your shoe be cleaned by your mouth.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Bill Myrick
From:
Pea Ridge, Ar. (deceased)
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 6:08 am
|
|
| Of coarse The Hilton Pedal has it's drawbacks : for one thing I have to carry extra equipment now-- a 4' club to beat back the women --- |
|
|
|
Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 6:18 am
|
|
| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
I think the thread is hilarious! I think this whole volume pedal thing is overblown. Either pedal can produce great tone. I COULD put 12 more smileys in the post to show more clearly that I was intent on having some fun with this! Well I am having fun with it. Everyone is just too serious about "gotta have this or that" to get good sound. I've heard totally awesome sounds from very diverse steel guitar setups.
Donny, you left out one of my favorite Paycheck/Green songs: Florence Jean (with a tonesucking pot pedal). I think that song would be great as an instrumental. Kind of obscure but nice chord changes. Tom Bath played it one year at the PSGA show.
sarky Definition sarky (sär′kē)
adjective sark′·ier, sark′·iest
Brit., Informal sarcastic
Yup, it is definitely "SARKY"
Greg |
greg....you nailed this one right on......there are so many ways to make good sounds.....and there are so many good sounding tunes played on all sorts of equipment.....to me..the key is that person holding the steel/picks....I have heard a bad player make horrible sounds thru the best equip..and vice versa....it is all about..."whatever floats your boat"...just play...have fun....enjoy...entertain...that is what this music thing means to me.....
thanks for an interesting thread and all the comments... |
|
|
|
Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 6:31 am
|
|
| I got more women at 27 with my old pot pedal than I do now at 53 with my Hilton so sumpin ain't right somewhere. |
|
|
|
Barry Scott
From:
San Diego, California, USA
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 6:48 am
|
|
| I run my BMI straight into a Hilton. From the Hilton directly into my Goodrich to suck all the tone out of the Hilton. Seriously...Greg , you are tremendous asset to the forum and when I see you are the author of a thread I nearly always read it. Thanks for your contributions. Your friend in San Diego, Barry |
|
|
|
Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 7:13 am
|
|
| Bill, I wondered what that 4 foot club in your steel guitar case was for. Was it you Bill who said the Hilton Pedal has so much sustain you could now pick half as much? |
|
|
|
Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 7:48 am
|
|
| Dick Wood wrote: |
| I got more women at 27 with my old pot pedal than I do now at 53 with my Hilton so sumpin ain't right somewhere. |
.....maybe your pedal aint what it used to be.. ...could use some greezing... |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 8:18 am
|
|
| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
Donny, you indeed missed the point. I love my pot pedal!
No buffer is needed with a pot pedal! If you prefer one, that is fine, but it is not needed and I did not use one on the recording above.
Both the Goodrich with a HotPotz and the Hilton are truly great pedals. Both are smooth, reliable and can produce awesome sounds.
Greg |
Well......how am I supposed to argue when you won't disagree with me?
Tarnation, give an ol' guy a break!
And so...
| Quote: |
| I think this whole volume pedal thing is overblown. |
I do too, as is the "push/pull vs. all-pull" thing, as is the "tubes vs. solid-state" thing, as is the "JBL vs. whatever" thing, as is the "single coil vs. humbucker" thing, etc., etc..
If all these years of playing has taught me anything, it's that there's no "magic bullet" that's going to turn an average player into a great player. There are no magic amps, pedals, bars, guitars, strings, picks, speakers, or pickups. A change in gear may give some players an incremental improvement, but mostly it's a "feel good" thing, and you have to remember that incremental improvements won't help if you're not sufficiently advanced in your skill or talent. For example: If you get a 40 on a test in school, a 5-point improvement doesn't help you much. (You're still a "D" student.) However, if you get a 5-point improvement on a test score of 87, you have moved from a "B" student to an "A" student. You have to be pretty well "up there" for a small change to be noticed by others. I've seen players buy a starter steel, and then 3 months later, they want to change the pickup!? Well, if you can't do a decent rendition of "Bud's Bounce" or "Danny Boy", believe me...a new pickup really ain't gonna help 'ya.
I've always emphasized ability and talent over "stuff". YOU are the bigest element in the equation. Players get famous based on how they play, not what they play.
I've always said that Keith made a fine pedal, and that the push/pull was a fine sounding steel, and that a Standel or a Fender tube model is a fine sounding amp. However, if you buy one of these (or any other piece of equipment), buy them for their good qualities, and not because someone told you they'll make you a great player, or they will make a huge improvement in your sound - because that's just not the case. |
|
|
|
Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
|
Posted 23 Apr 2008 9:34 am
|
|
| Hey there Dick Wood, thanks for using a Hilton Pedal. If your Hilton Pedal is not helping you pick up women like a 27 year old, you are "not" holding your mouth just right. When you are playing, try to curl your left lip up just a little. Then, every once in a while jerk your head back like you have been hit with a hot poker iron. Women should flock around you like you are the herd bull. |
|
|
|
