Right hand alpha- use it or not

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I purchased Jeff Newmans course "right hand alpha", and although it looks good, and sounds good, when HE does it....after about 2 weeks I fell into excuse #4. "my fingers are too short",and Jeff sez "no their not!!" Previously, I used my own "untrained" blocking technique and reached average success. Does any one out ther use this technique exclusively?

PS: I've only got 10 months in, so, any feedback will be appreciated.
thanks

rick

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

What is this "right hand alpha" you speak of?

I'm classically trained, so "pick-blocking" is pretty automatic for me, but I do have a bit of difficulty whenever I need to palm-block. It kind of reminds me when I learned how to play slap-bass (back when that was an acceptable technique to learn Mr. Green

)
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Primitive Utility Steel

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Hi Rick,
I used that course when I started, and it did help me with my right hand, but it took awhile for things to take. Right hand form and blocking were slow coming, and probably one of the most frustating aspects for me when starting. Blocking for speed is the new mountain I've been climbing, so it's an on-going challenge. After months of thinking and forcing my right hand form and blocking it seemed to just start happening naturally, so I would say that it takes time, it not like a quick exercise that you can master, and I would say that Jeff's course was pretty helpful, eventhough there was a lag time before it started to become realized, but everything he covers is important and useful for right hand technique. It's also really good to have a live teacher to help and advise, and my teacher--the wonderful John McClung--consistently reenforced my right hand form and technique, and things finally fell into place to match John's teachings. 10 months is a good time, and I remeber the frustraitons I would feel (and still do), but one of the things that I love about this instrument is the never-ending layers of challenges. Good luck!

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Rick one thing I got from the video wasn't so much the blocking as was how I hold my right hand, the first knuckle see how high JN has his raised, some guys play with "the claw" I am guilty! and I don't really think there is anything wrong with that, I am starting to think that playing with the raised knuckle proves to help with speed picking.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

The "Right Hand Alpha" has always made me feel guilty and anxious. My hand doesn't want to stand up on edge like that. Try as I may, I can't get there easily. I'm getting closer each year, but, I think I'm gonna run outa years before I get there.

It is with much relief that I watch the internet videos where guys that play MUCH better than I do kinda have their palm flat too...

Brent Carithers · From: California, USA

Hi Rick,

I haven't been playing much longer than you, but I use Jeff's technique and I can say that it absolutely made the difference for me. I was trashing around with my right hand technique and about to give up when I found that course.

It felt very strange to me at first...I felt like I should be attacking the strings with the fingerpicks more directly which led me to want to flatten my hand out and keep my fingers straighter. But then to palm-block, I'd have to rotate my wrist to bring the edge of my palm down on the strings. By practicing Jeff's technique slowly and deliberately, it sunk in and feels very natural to me now. It took me a while to get there though, much longer than 2 weeks. Once I got the technique down, it took a little longer for me to use it without watching my right hand all of the time too.

The thing that I've found using Jeff's technique is that it really minimizes movement of your right hand. By holding your right hand as Jeff suggests, you get good direct contact with the thumb pick and the meaty part of your palm is always in the perfect position for blocking so that you need only move your right hand ever so slightly and only in the vertical plane for palm-blocking.

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I've taught myself to use a claw-like right hand, and I'm always moving it to block.(Tilting back) Speed picking is really difficult that way for me, but it's ok with everything else. I like the way Jeff has his hand, always in the same position, with that little line.(foward and back)I just can't reach the strings,with my fingers, when I keep my hand that high. I can raise it a little like that, and I can see the advantages, but not that high. After a couple of weeks of it, I started messing up what I could do! I guess that's what Jeff said would happen. Little by little it'll sneak in. I guess I'll give it more time.
Thanks to all
Rick

Don Drummer · From: West Virginia, USA

I attended the Jeffran College in 79 My most obvious problem was my right hand technique. Jeeff convinced me to use my middle finger in combination with my thumb instead of using the index finger. Tis improved my blocking. Something else that I did later was when sitting at a table, desk, or whatever, lay your right hand flat on the palm side with the pinkey finger straight out and the other fingers turned in. This will help you to become comfortable physicaly with the position JF advocates. This has also led me to wear my finger picks on the tips of my fingers instead of pushed back like so many do. For years I've dealt with trying to keep them from slipping off. Luckily I read apost about using fiddle rosin and a dab of rubbing alcahol to hold them tight. This info was a life saver by the. Thanks to the forumite who provided it. Years later I regained the use of my index finger and don't feel guilty about using it. Don

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Rick

If you get a chance, take a look at Joe Wrights video #4 "Blocking Basics" and video #1 "Secrets of the Wright Hand". They will offer you some alternative methods and additional info. Right Hand Alpha is not the only way to go.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Right Hand Alpha (or Right Hand Buddy or Donny) is only one method. It won't work for everyone! There's more than one way, quite often. Try various ways and techniques, and then use the one that's most comfortable for you, the one that doesn't hold you back.

Things in the Bible are Gospel. Things steel players tell you (regardless of how famous they are) sometimes aren't. Sometimes, you gotta forget "He said so-and-so...", and just do what works for you.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I learned how to pick with Jeff's right hand alpha. I took a chance, trusted in Jeff and ingrained it into my psyche. Now it's all I know. I do a bit of pickblocking here and there, but my hand automatically goes into that high-knuckle position when I sit down to my steel. I like it a lot, and don't regret the "conditioning". He is right when he says that you will get the hang of it eventually. I practiced long and hard to make it second-nature.

Before I had any right-hand guidance, I had "the claw" happening. I had no control. It was a mess. The palm-blocking technique gives me control over my tone, and I can pick clean notes and chords. It really helps your accuracy with grips as well.
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Web: www.chrisledrew.com

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I agree with you Tom this is not the only way to go..

However after watching the video, I went to youtube and I checked out herby, this guys right hand is like holding a cup, that is really awsome.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

There's no LAW that says anyone has to do anything a certain way. But, Jeff Newman was the most successful teacher of the pedal steel guitar, there is a reason for that. The fact is, that what Jeff taught works! He was able to refine everything down to it's simplest form, one that anyone could learn if they were willing to work at it. Really talented players can overcome poor technique, but for most of us, it's best to use a method that has been proven to work. Playing the pedal steel is not much different than any other physical activity, some techniques work better than others.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

"Jeff Newman was the most successful teacher of the pedal steel guitar, there is a reason for that."

With all due respect, I'd amend that to say that he was the best-known teacher of PSG. He was a salesman above all, and he succeeded in establishing himself so that he was perceived as the leader in that field.

There are far too many varying right-hand styles among the very best pro steel-players for me to be convinced that there's only one 'right way to do it'.

I agree with Donny.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I've always been a "self taught" musician.The 6 string guitar came to me "naturally" and I ran with it. I've really worked hard on trying to play steel.Of course I'm not a kid anymore at 57. Now I realize there are techniques that can help me progress quicker. Beside the awkward height of the knuckle, I was comfortable using my thumb and 1st finger for fast licks. When I try to use the 3rd finger with the thumb,(as per JN) it's awkward.I've started to rely more on finger #3,(since this post), and with that high knuckle, it seems to be smoother. Gonna take some practice though, but isn't that what it's really about. Spending time with your instrument? Maybe my "attack" on the strings was wrong all along !!
All you fellas have been great with your input, and I agree with "trying other methods", and finding what "works for you".Always good to know the most you can about your axe, use it or not, because eventually, you're GOING to use some,or all of it,in different playing situations. For now, I continue with Jeff and see where it goes.Many thanks !
And to RAY: Ever since you sent me that Winston CD,(10 months ago??) I've plunged, "deep into the depths" of love and addiction to PSG ! I play, practice, and "mess around" with my steel daily. If I'm not sitting at it, I'm dreaming of a new lick, or a new position. And YES even while driving !! Smile

thanks
Rick

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Bent

Thanks for your well-considered reply, but I still maintain my position on this. I rather imagine that Jeff saw teaching initially as a supplement to his earnings as a musician, then found it to be a potentially-successful business. I doubt that it was his vocation in the real sense of the word.

I would expect any teacher to be consistent in his methodology. Jeff Newman was, and so is Joe Wright, but you couldn't find two more opposing techniques.

I was taken with something I once heard credited to Buddy Emmons on this very subject. He said - 'Use whatever method enables you to play the music you want to play.'

I must stress here that I'm not arguing against Jeff's method, but simply saying that there are many 'correct' ways to achieve the same ends. The way that I get music out of my steel doesn't bear close scrutiny!!! Whoa!

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Sure, Roger, we can agree to disagree. We all see certain people a bit differently. You are speaking out of your personal experience with Jeff I hope, and the same goes for me.

Just to reinforce my position, that Jeff came on to me as a natural-born, superb teacher first, and salesman second. This was evidenced in the fact that Jeff made it fun for the student to learn. Very few teachers have this talent.There is only one teacher that I put on the same level as Jeff, and that was an English teacher I had when I took a course in English a few years ago. This man also made it fun to learn, by his very approach to the students and also the methods he used in his teaching..One of his favorites were to teach via Bob Dylan songs. And we did learn. I got 99% on my exam, not bad for a middle-aged ex-Norwegian.

The same with Jeff.The first seminar I attended, he came strutting into the room, walked up to the blackboard and wrote in big letters: THINK SIMPLE! Then he proceeded to show us the meaning of Simple, by telling us which strings and pedals to forget about to start with: str 1, 2, 7 and 9 and concentrate on pedals A&B

Jeff was an artist who managed to paint pictures in my mind. Nobody can tell me that he was not a natural born teacher first and foremost. The business/sales thing was definitely secondary.

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

Jeff never tried to change my right hand and only encouraged me to stick with what I had developed from finger picking on 6stg and Banjo.
JE:-)>

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Bent said:

"You are speaking out of your personal experience with Jeff I hope, and the same goes for me. "

Actually, Bent - no.

I did once see an extract of the right-hand tape, and I thought it did an adequate job of reinforcing that particular method. I also thought it unnecessarily long and repetitive, but that wasn't a problem in my view.

I've never had any lessons - apart from some very timely and helpful hints from my friend Gerry Hogan when I first bought a ZB, and some wise counsel from Jimmie Crawford regarding knee-lever set-ups when I toured with him years ago - but I've considered it from time to time. At one point I spoke with Jeff at St Louis, but I found him somewhat brusque and cold.

If I ever do take tuition, it'll be from someone whose brain I'd want to pick because of his musical approach. Tommy White would be perfect, but he won't entertain the idea! While Jeff was clearly an accomplished player, he didn't really connect with me musically, and his off-hand manner (we can all have an 'off' day) didn't help. What I'm saying is that I'd be receptive to a superior player's musical ideas rather than mechanics.

All that, however, does not disqualify me from theorizing about the various right-hand techniques and the different options proffered by the various teachers.

(PS: Buddy would be great, too, but I can only imagine the stress I'd be under to even pull out my steel in front of any of those guys! I'd be convinced that they'd sooner be anywhere else than stuck with coaching ME for an afternoon!!!)
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Roger, I think it's safe to assume that you are a better player and musician than I am. But I would like to add another observation. If we are talking about palm blocking, I think Jeff's is pretty close to the standard, most accepted method. It could be defined as keeping the edge of the hand in contact with the strings, the first knuckle pointed up, and raising the entire hand slightly as you pick, then lowering the hand to block the strings. This up and down movement, when done by a skilled player is almost imperceptible.

There are lots of pedal steel videos on Youtube, so that's a good place to see examples. Some that I have seen there that use this style: Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day, Sarah Jory, Buddy Charlton, John Hughey, Barbara Mandrell, David Hartley, to name a few. What I'm saying is that palm blocking is a basic technique, used by many good players. Jeff Newman tried to teach this basic method, because he understood that it worked. Doesn't it seem like a beginner would be wise to make a serious attempt to learn palm block? If that is true, then Jeff's course would help them learn it. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Bill Moore...
my steel guitar web page

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

This has turned out to be quite an informative thread for me! Being a "serious" novice,(@PSG), I'm being offered quite a lot of useful information as well as strong opinions.You gentlemen have ALL given me useful responses, and I thank you. As far as Jernigan, Green, & Wright, I'm not familiar with their personal techniques, as some of you are, but I'll sure look into it! and youtube.
Strangely, my wife, who supports all my musical efforts, sounded like the Emmons quote presented, when she told me,"you did it your way on guitar, you can do it your way here"
However.... at this point, I "bought the ticket" for the CD, I may as well experience it, while I look at the bigger picture. And ALL you fellas helped me realize just what a bigger picture There is!!!
Rick

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