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Topic: Dobro tone |
Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 10 Apr 2008 9:47 pm |
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Hey guys I have an rd52 dobro an earlier model with the full upgrade and quaterman cone.It has always sounded great and to my ears been highly comparable to a more expensive dobro though recently it seems to still sound great on the lower strings but has lost much of the resonance and sustain on the higher strings nothing appears to be broken and the cone apears to be intact does anyone have any thoughts on why this could be.Thanks
Ben |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 11 Apr 2008 7:26 am
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Have you tried changing strings?
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 11 Apr 2008 8:00 am
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| Thanks Brad its a good point the same strings used to sound good so I didnt think that much about it but maybe they changed supplier or design Ill give that a go.Thanks Ben |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 11 Apr 2008 8:14 am
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At a class at Wintergrass in February in Tacoma Paul Beard of Beard Guitars recommended taking the guitar apart once a year and cleaning it out. If you use a cloth to wipe down the cover plate he mentioned that the openings work just like a cheese grater depositing lint into the body of the guitar and coating the cone. We were shocked at the debris in side a participants Beard guitar that was only one year old. It might make good sense to buy his video/DVD on maintenance and take it apart and vacuum it out and wipe down the cone ridding it of the lint and garbage that may have accumulated on the cone's surface robbing you of some sound.
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Steve |
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Eric Ebner
From:
Texas Republic
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 9:14 am
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| Steve Branscom wrote: |
| Paul Beard of Beard Guitars recommended taking the guitar apart once a year and cleaning it out. |
I would strongly disagree with Mr. Beard on this one!
I say leave it alone. I've owned several resonator instruments over a number of decades and would not want people to believe that this is the only opinion on this subject. It should RARELY be necessary and 99.9 times out of 100 I would argue nothing could be gained. Once a resonator guitar "settles" it sounds best left alone IMO.
The weak top string resonance could be a few things. Strings as mentioned, or a cone shift or loosening cone/spider screw (this adjustment seems to effect the high strings most), or possibly a nut or bridge insert issue. Let us know what it finally was... even if it does end up being dust on the cone;-) You might be in that 0.1%!
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Tribo-Tone™ Bars |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 11:04 am
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I totally agree with Eric. Here is another possible easy solution to try.
As you change strings and re-tighten them, the spider can gradually be scooted towards the neck, which can greatly affect the tone. Here is a trick suggested to me by a builder of fine resophonics (Booby Wolff)to try to correct the treble loss:
With the strings under tension and the resonator screw adjusted normally, place a flat blade screwdriver at the end of the spider foot that is next to the neck and scoot it straight back, slightly toward the tailpiece. DO NOT FORCE IT! A slight movement 1/16" - 1/8" is all. This worked for me.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 1:05 pm
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Eric,
If it's a bridge insert issue, he's going to have to take the guitar apart completely to replace it. Somehow I don't see this as any different than what Mr. Beard recommended.
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Steve |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 1:39 pm
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I apologize to Mr. Bobby Wolff for the mis-spelling.
Another check is to see that the spider legs are not rotated (the bridge not perpendicular to the strings). Look in holes of the cover plate along the bridge spider legs and see if one is more forward than other. This can cause a 'pinch' of the strings and is usually more noticed in muffled treble strings. If it is, try to use the flat blade screwdriver to rotate legs back in line. (Always be careful to NOT push down on the screwdriver blade and punch a hole in the cone!)
Thanx,
Jim |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 2:48 pm
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| Thanks guys this is some good suggestions and I have to sort it out in the next couple of days so Ill keep you updated.Fingers crossed Ben |
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James Harrison
From:
New Brockton, Alabama, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 6:46 pm
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You may need a hearing test. Your hearing at that frequency may have changed. Get another player to listen to the guitar and see how it sounds to him. If it sounds bad to him, go to work on the suggestions. I think it should be fixable.
James |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 13 Apr 2008 7:17 pm
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| Thanks James it seemed to happen before I went into the studio the other day it espescially seems to me to get week up the neck.Though some of it can be accounted for by human differences or error in playing Im sure it sounded more like a lap slide or cheaper factory dobro now and less like a dobro than it did before so as far as not hearing frequencies its more of a tonal thing.The more I think on it I have to try changing string brands cause it sounds like old dead strings without any zing.Ill update .Thanks Ben |
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Don Walters
From:
Saskatchewan Canada
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Posted 14 Apr 2008 7:18 am
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| Ben, maybe I'm missing something but you have twice commented on changing string brands. I don't think that's what Brad B. meant ... just put on a new set of strings if you haven't done so recently. It's the quickest, cheapest and "safest" way to start fixing your problem(s) |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 14 Apr 2008 7:43 am
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| Thanks Don maybe I did misunderstand but if so ,thats not an issue .I change my strings every 8-10 hours of playing time and only just put new ones on. I use this guitar professionally so I try to keep it in good shape.What I was discussing in my previous posts is that in my understanding most strings are generally made in just a few factories (around five major ones I can think of with guitar)and then distributed by different companies or brands so you may buy two different brands of string and they could have been made in the same factory(not true of all brands but many).This is why some strings though different brands sound the same .Maybe the strings Ive been using has changed supplier due to a better deal financially and as a result though using the same brand string they are manufactured differently and inferior to the previous ones I was using.Any how I think itd be wishful thinking for it to be that simple from experience therell be more involved than that and I may have to take it to someone wiser than I to get her right again.Cheers |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2008 5:23 pm
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I have taken my dobros apart to clean the accumulated dust and dirt and noticed a definite improvement and return of the tone's brilliance. At the ResoSummit in Nashville Paul Beard took apart a Mike Auldridge Beard guitar that was alarmingly dead sounding. He discovered a thick layer of dust clinging to the cone, the result of a picnic and a Texas dust storm. The cleaning restored the guitar to its former self. Both Paul and Tim Scheerhorn, 2 of the greatest dobro builders in the world, recommend occasional routine cleaning. While it is apart you can check for other problems, like a collapsed cone or bridge slot wear. I agree with Steve and will take the advice of the experts.
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Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2008 1:59 pm
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If this is the first time you have ever done the work on a resophonic, be sure and carefully take apart each piece and put each back where it was. If the guitar was not buzzing before you took it apart, it can show up big time if you just yank out the parts, clean 'em up and slap them back in.
Even put each screw in the cover plate back exactly where it was: some may be different sizes and you can wind up stripping out some more holes.
Beard and also Stew-Mac have a good videos to help you through the steps.
Good luck,
Jim |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 7:00 am
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It was the strings I always import my strings from the states the other day I opened a new box of the same brand strings and they sounded completely different.Seems I got a bad box and my sound back
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www.myspace.com/benspickin |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 7:57 am
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| Ben Hoare wrote: |
| ...in my understanding most strings are generally made in just a few factories (around five major ones I can think of with guitar)and then distributed by different companies or brands... |
I'd be surprised if there were as many as five. In the US they virtually all come from the Mapes Piano String Company.
I was also at the Beard workshop, and I'd have to say Paul knows what he is talking about. The workshop was intended to be about maintenance, but he got so involved answering technical questions that he only got through the disassembly portion.
A couple of ways to reduce the buildup of crud in the cone: use a microfiber cloth, instead of flannel, to wipe things down; and blow out the instrument with compressed air now and then. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 9:26 am
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| Steve Branscom wrote: |
| ...Paul Beard of Beard Guitars recommended taking the guitar apart once a year and cleaning it out. ... We were shocked at the debris in side a participants Beard guitar that was only one year old. ...vacuum it out and wipe down the cone ridding it of the lint and garbage that may have accumulated on the cone's surface robbing you of some sound. |
Do you think he is talking only to guys who play a lot of outdoor bluegrass events with dust, dirt, and dried manure blowing in the wind? I wonder if my Beard guitar needs cleaning since I play it only indoors. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 10:24 am
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Earnest.....there can be a lot of manure indoors sometimes too   |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 11:20 am
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Taking your own dobro apart is not for the faint hearted, but if you know (learn) how to do it, the results can be rewarding. Any drummer will tell you that cleaning his cymbals restores the sprarkle.
Washing your cone just like washing a dish in the sink does wonders. When you first try it, you will have trouble getting the cone reseated properly all the way around the rim and it can be quite frustrating. I don't paricularly recommend doing it
yourself unless you have a back up guy that can rescue you.
Ben,I know the distance make it impractical for you, but anyone who lives in the southeast U.S. would do well to become aquainted with Bobby Wright at
www.customresosetup.com. Bobby learned his craft under Gene Wooten plus many hours of experimentation. For my money, he is the best in the business.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 11:51 am
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Ben Strings are made in large batches,,so if you got a bad set, it is likely the whole box was bad also. Just a bad batch of wire,,and all the companies suffer the same fate.
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 3:06 pm
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Clyde said
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Ben,I know the distance make it impractical for you, but anyone who lives in the southeast U.S. would do well to become aquainted with Bobby Wright at
www.customresosetup.com. Bobby learned his craft under Gene Wooten plus many hours of experimentation. For my money, he is the best in the business. |
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Thanks Clyde theres actually a guy in Sydney (Pearse Crocker) who does my work when needed,who also is a fine hawaian steel player,I entrust him with my work hes amazing I had the same dobro knocked over at show once which split the neck off the guitar it came back sounding better than original thanks to Pearse.Highly recommended for any Aussies out there
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www.myspace.com/benspickin
Last edited by Ben Hoare on 6 Jun 2008 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James Harrison
From:
New Brockton, Alabama, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 9:52 pm
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I wish I had ears like you guys. I have been playing 68 years and I have never bought a bad set of strings that I could tell they were bad. I have never had anyone tell me that my tone was a little off. Did your recording company tell you that you sound bad, or, are you just nit picking?
James  |
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Ben Hoare
From:
NSW Australia
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Posted 6 Jun 2008 10:41 pm
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| Steve Norman wrote: |
| Ben Strings are made in large batches,,so if you got a bad set, it is likely the whole box was bad also. Just a bad batch of wire,,and all the companies suffer the same fate. |
true Steve and to compound I get them sent from the USA so who knows what happens on the way.Anyway Ill keep using them as its the first time its happened.Expensive when it happens to a whole box (12 sets)though.
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www.myspace.com/benspickin |
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