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Topic: Puttin' her back together-Fender 400 |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 9:14 pm |
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The distance from the bridge to the nut is the same as my ZB. Would this be a long scale Fender? What's the story on those?
I have a 1000 in pieces too that needs buffing out. The color is slightly different. My friend that refinished them mixed up the pedal racks and the one that matches the 400 has holes drilled for 8 pedals and the 1000 has holes for 4 pedals.  Might be time to try the Sneaky Pete tuning on the 400. I have two knee levers that came with the 1000.
Has anyone ever tried to put the Stringmaster dual pickups and blend knob on a Fender PSG? My non pedal Fenders are the best sounding steels I've owned.
Dave |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 3:54 am
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Dave,
That looks good!
Jim is adding pickups to his new 400 Here and I think he may be adding two Jaguar style 400 pickups or a big monster pickup he has. It should be interesting.
The Sneaky set up is cool but you have to think a bit backwards ... but it comes pretty quick. 
Have fun,
Russ |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 5:21 am
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Dave, that monster pickup I got from you IS going in the new long-scale 400 I got (and that IS what you have).
Email me if you want setup tips for Sneaky's copedent; there are a couple of simple tricks, and even ways to get 90% of his playing on a 4-pedal 400.
Jim
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 7:06 am
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It will probably end up being a modified version of the B6 tuning. I want more of the traditional C6 style changes plus E9 style AB pedals, plus a few twists of my own. I spend a lot more time on the 6th tunings these days.
Glad you found a use for the pickup.
Hi Russ!  |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 7:49 am
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Hi Dave!
The good news with the 400 is that it takes all of 10 minutes to change the set up. So whatever you try it's easy to change if you dont like it. The 5 and 6 C6 pedals are right on Sneaky's set up so you should feel right at home.
I was playing with Newman's E9/B6 course and could go between the S12U, B6 on the back neck of my ZB and the Fender 400 without much problem. Well, I always have problems...
Take care,
Russ |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 8:02 am
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| Quote: |
| Would this be a long scale Fender? What's the story on those? |
Story? I'll give you the long and short of the whole deal...
The long scales (24 1/2") were made until the fall of 1963. At that time, the short scales (23") were introduced. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 8:14 am
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What are the pros and cons with long vs. short? Is one more desirable or preferred by most steelers? I don't have anything to compare to.
dz |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 9:28 am
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I liked the short scale when I had one but since having the long scale I like it better.
I would suggest letting Jim get his set up and then have him bring it to you to try. If you like it, give him yours to set up. When he gets it finished he can drive it back to you and swap them back!
How's that sound Jim!  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 10:47 am
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Hehe - it'd probably be fun!
Dave - if you look at Sneaky's copedent (or set it up, since on a Fender it takes about 20 minutes to completely move every single change), even with9out the knees (which he didn't add until the 70's) it's probably EXACTLY what you want - it's a repeated 4-string 6th tuning, but with E9-style A&B pedals. When you get to the center pedals they are somewhat like a C6 tuning (and there's no reason you can't tweak it a bit - the 4th and 8th pedals are almost the same, and the 9th pedal he never used at all - it was a placeholder for his foot).
What it really is: a sort of universal in reverse. If you think of it in those terms the changes all start to make perfect sense. I've had a couple friends who play a little E9 steel (not forum members and primarily country-rockers) sit down and almost instantly be able to play the thing it's so logical.
It just *looks* intimidating to alot of players because 1) it's on an 8-string guitar with a single neck, and 2) it seems like a porcupine with 9 pedals and 2 knees.
In practical use, though, 90% of what Pete played used the "A&B" pedals, the 7th pedal, and the 8th pedal. When he installed the knees he started using the left one a lot (a first string full-step lower) but the right one was not used much, as he thought it ended up sounding (and I thought this was funny) too "pedal steely" - If you're on the A&B pedals playing a V chord the right knee takes you back to a I chord, and sounds like a well-worn pedal steel move.
Hope that helps -
Jim
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Joel Meredith
From:
Portland,Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 1:55 pm
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| I just got a 400 off ebay, scheduled to arrive tomrrow. I'm going to set it up in B6 Sneaky style, so all this info is very helpful. Thanks! |
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Terje Brattsveen
From:
Nashville, TN. USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 3:05 pm
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| What exactly is the Sneaky Pete copedent? I am new to steel guitar, but have always like Sneaky Pete's playing. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2008 4:18 pm
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2008 9:05 pm
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I also have a version for a 10-string 3+4 if anyone is ever feeling adventurous; I have it on my GFI Ultra, and it's an absolute kick to play. I quit beating my head against the wall on E9 guitars and went exclusively to B6 when Ed Bierly, Paul Redmond and I (with GFI's technical help) worked it out.
I just have never been able to post it and get it to format right. I'd be happy to email it in a spreadsheet format, though.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 5 Apr 2008 2:09 pm
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Jim- would you mind?
I've been curious about a 3+4 version, and wouldlike to use some tidbits of it on my steel.
Thanks,
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James Collett |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2008 9:19 pm
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James - check your email -
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 6 Apr 2008 5:06 pm
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Jim, could I get a copy of that as well??? Thanks!
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2008 7:24 pm
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My latest 400 project, and it's "the" keeper; Dave supplied the monster of a second pickup, which oddly reads only about 5.8k DC resistance but has to have the most output of any steel pickup I've tried...plus it has a big, round, fat sound with a ton of upper mids and beefy lows. I installed phase switch and the pickup is so gutsy I prefer the guitar in the out-of-phase position as almost no volume is lost and the tone is really distinctive. It sounds like a cross between a Jazzmaster, Strat on the #4 switch position and a Dano baritone guitar, but with lots of sustain; very "woody". I thought the extra magnets would kill sustain or pull it out of tune, but the sustain is actually better than most 400's.
Through my 1x15 Vibroverb the darned thing rattles windows.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 7 Apr 2008 9:03 am
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Doesn't that monstrosity of a pickup get in the way of your picking hand?
Also, I'm on a search for a 10-string humbucking pickup with low output and bright tone so I can swap between by PSG and my Lap Steel (bridge pup is a SD JB wired in parallel) without having to reset my amp.
Sorry for the thread hi-jack...
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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