New - current favorite 12AX7 tubes

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

New Mullard (russian reissue)

New Tung-Sol (russian reissue)

New JJ ECC803 (edited) (long plate telefunken copy)

So far my experience with these has been quite good. They all have long plates, and have a robust low end and low mid response. Rich mids, and unusually smooth top end. Great for steel, bass, and audiophile use. For new tubes, these are currently on my good list. This may change however. I've noticed that these European tubes can vary from season to season. I've seen months where batches are great, and then my next batch will be laden with problems. The new tube quality control isn't anywhere near what it was back in the 50's and 60's and 70's when it was mostly military spec. These days it's mostly for musical gear, so they aren't as stringent with material purity, factory conditions, moisture, etc. I think they let a lot of duds or near-duds pass thru where back in the day they would have never made it out of the factories. So that being said, these are currently pretty killer tubes for being newly made ones.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Brad

Are these in order of your preference?

Where is a good place to buy?

thx

bob

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Not in any order of preference. All of them sound real good in a clean situation. I guess off hand that I think of the JJ as real clear and refined and maybe kind of like the telfunken it's emulating. The Tung-Sol is nice and big sounding and generally smooth. Nice and natural with some extra beef to it. Then the new Mullard is just real warm and super good all around, but stands out for its warm and mellowish top end. Again no preference order, yet. I'm sure the more I mess with them, one will probably come out on top as THE favorite. But not yet.

These three tubes may also be great for dirtier guitar amp tones too, but I haven't really gone there much with these. There are a bunch of big tube dealers out there. I order from different sources at different times. Just check prices I guess. Here are a few.

tubesandmore.com
newsensor.com
thetubestore.com
boiaudioworks.com/
vacuumtubes.com/
tubedepot.com/
vacuumtubes.net

Brad

KENNY KRUPNICK · From: Columbus, Ohio

www.analogbros.com
Very Happy

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Brad

What about these:

http://www.newsensor.com/ProductHighLight.aspx?ProId=35

bob

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Has anyone tried Grove Tubes? Suppose to be the best.

http://www.groovetubes.com/

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Don,

Groove Tubes does NOT make tubes. They merely select and buy other tubes and put their name on them. Nothing special about Groove Tubes in my opinion, other than that they probably test and select them to work ok. One nice thing they do is rate their power tubes on a "hardness" scale, so you can go for a certain kind of sound. But as far as the tubes themselves, they are NOT an actual make or brand, just a label painted on the glass.

Brad

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Bob, that EH 12AX7 is decent. It's EH's more premium Sovtek tube. Not bad, not amazing. New Sensor, EH, and Sovtek are all the same company.

Brad

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

I agree - I've tried the GT's and really nothing special but the JJ's really sound nice. I have one in my Black Box now and it still sounds great.

I haven't tried the others Brad has mention but will in time. I may get a few now since Brad has mentioned the quality is good at this point.

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

Brad,would we benefit anything by changing the tubes in our RTP's to any of the tubes you metioned?

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Brad, I guess I should have expressed myself a little different. I realize GT doesn't make the tubes they sell. It was only a question, (since I've never tried them myself).

Many places get tubes in and then simply sell them to anyone who's buying. I think I or anyone else would rather pay top dollar for a tube that's been completely checked out (if in fact GT really does that?) specifically for the particular device it's going to be used in, than I would to pay five bucks, for a tube that's not worth the time of putting it in. (IE micro phonic, etc). We've probably all experienced that on stage from a tube amp, at one time or another, after retubing. "Not good!" Whoa!

Also something of importance is the fact that the same tube that works great in one man's application, may not be worth a crap, in another application that calls for the same tube.

I asked, because I'm also needing to retube my 1966 Fender Twin.

KENNY KRUPNICK · From: Columbus, Ohio

The Russian tubes are about the best,especially compared to Chinese tubes.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Not to stray too far off topic, but what about the "7551's" :

One of Stevie Ray Vaughn’s favorite tubes was the 5751 preamp tube. With 30% less amplification than a 12AX7, but 100% interchangeable, an amp using the 5751 preamp tube creates a creamier and smoother tone than with a 12AX7. If your amp has too much gain, the 5751 is the perfect choice to "calm" the amp down and get more break-up without all the volume. We prefer the U.S. made JAN 5751 over any other 5751 available.

bob

Michael Holland · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

I put the Tung-Sol 12AX7 and a pair of new Tung-Sol 6L6 in my Hot Rod Deluxe. Haven't taken them out since. And I have beaucoup des tubes!

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I haven't used the Groove Tube pre-amp tubes, but have had crappy luck with their 6V6s, both grades that they sell in pairs. One of them shorted big-time internally and almost wiped out the PT.
Like mentioned above, the 5751 seems very good for V1 tone.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Sorry, but I cannot get hyped up over some Russian factory using the name of Mullard and TungSol and putting out a "reissue" of these tubes. If they are not made on the original equipment by workers that were as good as the original workers and quality control that is obviously not as good, then at the inflated prices that they are charging.....it is a crapshoot.

I would venture that there are run of the mill 12AX7s coming out of the same factories that are as good and better. I have dealt with these Russian tubes as long as New Sensor has been in business and have seen all the ad hype for this and that, and I personally have had the best luck with the cheap 12AX7 they sell. Your mileage may vary.

I used to do a lot of amp repair. I kept every tube that I removed from old Fender amps if the customer did not want them. I have hundreds of them and many times if I have a tube to exchange in one of MY amps, I will just reach in the box and find an old USA made tube and test it and plug it in and use it. I have amps running on the same tubes for 10 or 20 years and they still sound great. One of my Silvertone amps from about 65' still has the Silvertone USA made tubes in it and it functions as well as ever.

If you are chasing the tone using newly made tubes, you are shooting in the dark unless you have some test equipment to fully load and test each tube, or deep pockets to buy a bunch and try them.

In regards to the Groove Tube folks, I have not dealt with them in a while, but they were about the best company to get a decent tube from because of the testing they did on them. You paid out the waazoo for them because instead of buying 5 and getting one great one and 2 decent and 2 duds, you actually got a good tube for the inflated price you paid. I don't know if Mr. Pittman is still at Groove Tubes or not.

I love tube amps. Used one on every guitar job I have done for the last 40+ years. Besides audio, is there any other applications in modern countries using vacuum tubes???

As a side note, I used to find a lot of salvage electronic gear to get the tubes. If you ever run across any old medical Xray machines that used vacuum tube, get them. They use about 75 tubes in them, many being usuable in guitar amps. I found 50 9pin Telefunken tubes once in a machine that had been trashed.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Bill, I agree that these reissues are surely not gonna be like the originals. But these days, we really don't have many options other than Russia for new tubes. Looking closely at their new Tung-Sol and Mullard, it's pretty impressive what they're doing. They are closely modeling the original spec's and geometry like the longer plate size and mica support disks and stuff.

For new tubes, these things honestly do exhibit good, big, robust tone similar to the tube they are modeled after. So far I've had nearly perfect success with the Tung-Sol and the Mullard 12AX7's. These are far better results than I generally get from the EH or Sovtek tubes, even though they are under the same corporate umbrella.

Also, JJ's newer ECC802 and ECC803 are an attempt at the long-plate Telefunken tubes. These are also proving to be extremely good "new" tubes. Much better than JJ's basic ECC82 and ECC83. (ECC82 is a 12Au7 and ECC83 is a 12Ax7) I still like to round up NOS tubes, and I'm a die-hard telefunken tube lover. But for OEM, I've gotta deal with newly available tubes, and so far I'm impressed. Generally I've been somewhat disappointed in new tubes, so it's refreshing to see them pull off something that's so much better than just OK.

So where should I look for one of these old x-ray machines?

Brad

Thom Gustafson · From: Mount Vernon, Washington, USA

I've got to agree with Brad about the Tung-Sol 12AX7 tubes. I've put a pair in my 60's Deluxe and Vibrolux and just put a pair in my silver face Pro. These tubes blow me away for guitar, although I play my steel through a Vegas 400. I'm thinking I might try using my Pro for steel again although with the EV speakers my aging back might not be too happy.

If you're using an old Fender amp there's no need to replace all the tubes if you only use the vibrato channel. You can just put them in sockets V2 and V4 (on either side of the 12AT7 on the right).

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Thom,

When you say "blow me away", can you describe the differences? I still don't know how a preamp tube really affects tone since I thought a tubes' job was to "amplify"?

thx

bob

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Bob,

preamp tubes do impart quite a bit of color actually. In the earlier Black Boxes, I used the JJ 12AU7. That was the sweetest sounding new tube I could find at the time. It has a very flattering midrange and an extra sweet top end. But being a short plate design, it seems that it's not as solid or stiff sounding in the bass and low mids. On guitar and steel that can be a good thing. For bass or heavy C6, it may be too mushy. I'm finding that longer plate tubes seem to have a more neutral and maybe mellower treble while having a more robust and firm sounding low end. Some tubes to me sound clean and hi-fi. Other sound more "juicy" and lively. They do all sound different. Not hugely though. I guess it's a 20% factor at best. Tubes will sound like tubes, and that may be the 80% factor, while the various tube sonics make up the rest. That's a wildly un-scientific breakdown.

Audiophiles as well as guitar amp junkies go round and round with many adjectives describing the different qualities of preamp tubes as well as power tubes.

Brad

Thom Gustafson · From: Mount Vernon, Washington, USA

I've used black face Fender amps for guitar for a very long time, especially my Deluxe (35 years). Once RCA tubes became impossible to find (at least until the Internet), I was forced to try all the usual replacements...JJ Tesla, Sovtek, Yugoslavian tubes, Shuguang, Groove Tubes, etc. Most guitarists that would play through my Deluxe at jam sessions during the RCA days would give me a "wow, what an amp" when they were done. However, once my stock of RCA's dried up the amp sounded harsh, brittle, or less powerful with any of the other tubes.

I replaced electrolytic caps, which helped but still I wasn't really happy. I read reviews of the Tung-Sol reissues and thought I'd try them in my Deluxe and Vibrolux and it's like an old friend has returned. My amps sing...more power, great mids, clear ringing highs, more sustain, solid bass. The "wow" factor is back.

I just put a pair in my silver face Pro yesterday, same thing. BIG difference.

I can't speak for how long the tubes will last, since I've only used them a couple of months, but so far so good.

BTW, all my amps use Svetlana Winged C 6L6GC power tubes (even the Deluxe which I rebiased and has been using 6L6's for 30+ years).

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Thom,

To be clear, these are the same Tung-Sol's Brad is referring too?

Are you guys buying the "gold" version or standard?

I think I'll order a pair. too Smile

Did you try the Mulard reissues?

bob

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Brad - In your original post, did you mean JJ 803's rather than 83's? The 803's are long plate, 83's are short plate..

I just spent $90 on 5 Tungsols. Marked them with a marker, and rolled em thru my amp. Don't like - can't return. All "chime" and no mids. OK for clean channel, I suppose - but they don't work for me.

I like the Sovtek LPS's - more balanced tone, but still a little fuzzy in the mids.

Will be trying the JJ803's and the Mullard RI shortly.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

What amp, Tom?

thx,

bob

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