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Topic: Emmons S10 fatback. Refinish or not ?. |
Barry Gaskell
From:
Cheshire, UK
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 2:22 am |
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Hi Guys
I've recently acquired an Emmons S10 fatback serial number 1352 S.(is it a 73) ?. See attached pictures.
It seems to have been a green sunburst but now is a manky yellowish greeney colour. I'm thinking of refinishing it natural as the wood has a nice figuring to it.
I presume the green and dark sunburst was not originally stained into the wood. Can I use something like nitromors stripper to clean it all off, or would that damage the inlay or cause me other problems ?
Have you any advice that would help me with it and maybe save me from any disasters.
Thanks in advance.
Barry
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 4:14 am
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Hi Barry
Personally I would keep it original, but the natural wood Emmons' do look nice. If you are not 100% comfortable in doing this work, I am sure that Ron Bennett could do it for you. The wood is almost certainly stained, and sanding off the top coat and refinishing could well be a specialist job. Stay away from Nitro-Moors.
Nice guitar.
Ken |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 4:59 am
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| I NEVER remove the finish from a vintage instrument. Not only does it devalue the guitar, it changes the sound as you are stripping off a nice old hardend finish and replacing it with a softer new finish that acts like a damper on the wood. I know that a steel guitar is less affected by the thickness of a lacquer finish than say a nice old Martin acoustic guitar, but there is a factor there. I would not do it. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 5:25 am
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| The question of altering an original instrument's condition has been explored to the nth degree in the vintage guitar world, a world I have done business in for 30 years. Unless a vintage instrument's original finish is in extremely, extremely poor condition, it is never a good idea to refinish it. The value of that instrument will automatically be devalued by 50% and many potential buyers will not consider it. For the category of steel guitars, Emmons push-pulls are unquestionably vintage. There are those who say that, "It's mine, I can do with it what I want" or "I never plan on selling it" or even "I don't care." Aside from the last, perhaps the best response to those is, "If I owned a Picasso would it be OK if I painted over some of it because I didn't like some of its colors?" Finally, if one feels compelled to have an instrument with a more desirable finish then its original, a good suggestion is to sell or trade the undesirable instrument for one that either one likes better or that can be restored from a condition that is clearly on the lowest condition scale. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 7:30 am
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I'm going to cast my vote for leave it alone!
I was fortunate to have my 75'D-10 PP refinished by Dick Miller, one of the last guitars he did before he passed away. The only reason I had it done was that 25+ yrs of hard use on the road and club gig's had taken it's toll on her and Mike Cass was doing a complete restoration job at the time it was done.
It was originally solid "danish brown", but Dick pretty much told me I was going to get a "Brown Burst" once he saw the wood that was hiding under the original dark finish. I glad he did it this way!
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 7:40 am
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it looks good to me as is...
The colors that ZBs fade to look good to me also
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 8:13 am
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I would never refinish a perfectly good finish on any vintage guitar of any type for all the reasons that have been advanced by Bill and Eric. If I couldn't live with the looks, I'd swap for another whose looks suits me better.
The only guitars I have ever had refinished were ones in which the finish was already stripped or refinished poorly.
There's also this reason - there are only a certain number of fine "original" vintage guitars in the world. If we are lucky enough to have some, we are stewards entrusted to their care - we only get to "borrow" them for a period - you can't take 'em with you. I think the thought of stripping the finish off vintage guitars is so highly frowned upon because if it were not, it would be increasingly harder and harder to find them unmolested.
You are, of course, legally permitted to do whatever you want with it. But I think it would be a very poor idea to refinish such a fine original example.
My opinions are colored by quite a few years in the vintage guitar biz, no offense intended. But I haven't seen anybody do this to a 6-string guitar in a pretty long time. Eric is absolutely right about the 50% rule - on a particularly fine piece, it may be quite a bit more devalue than that. That doesn't seem to quite apply in the PSG world right now, but I don't see these types of instruments going anywhere but up and it seems to me that as that happens, condition and originality will become increasingly important to value. |
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Tim Greene
From:
Athens Tennessee USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 9:20 am
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| Barry If you remove the 3 screws from the black emmons badge you can see what color it used to be. I have a d-10 faded to same color as yours and mine was orginally blue.The wood on a lacquer emmons is not stained but sprayed with a tinted color lacquer or clear if it is a natural finish.Also the birdseye wood is a veneer and not a solid maple body like sho-buds.If you search the old forum under pedal steel search word lacquer there are several informative posts that cover restoration.Look for Mike Cass or Jerry Roller as they have a wealth of knowledge on redoing lacquer.The forum has several posts with pictures of lacquer guitars and several of those have been restored and are very striking in appearance.Good Luck Tg |
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Barry Gaskell
From:
Cheshire, UK
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 9:27 am
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Hi Guys
Thanks for all the input.
I'm going to leave it alone !!!!
I think it was originally a C6 guitar, as it has space for another two floor pedals on the bar.
I will though, give it a damn good clean and refurb it. Maybe the colour will return a bit if I T-cut it.
With the metalwork cleaned and shiney it should set it of a bit.
What year does the number suggest ?.
Jim. I love the colour of your twin, it's superb.
Thanks again guys, she can rest assured.
Barry |
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Barry Gaskell
From:
Cheshire, UK
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 9:51 am
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Hi Tim
I've just taken the badge off and , yep, it's been a blue one.
I'll just give her a good clean up.
I didn't realise they were only maple laminates. I thought they were solid.
Cheers for the info
Barry
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 12:17 pm
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Mine is #1223 and I'm the original owner and I got her in 1975.
JE:-)> |
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Kyle Everson
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 7:20 pm
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| I would leave it alone. That finish looks original. The only time I would refinish a vintage guitar is if there was a refin and it was done improperly (which is the current case with my push-pull). I'm no expert on instrument finishing, but I would bet there are a half a dozen or so clear lacquer coats before the sunburst begins.It's probably not a stain. My guitar was stained before I bought it, and it all but ruined the beautiful birdseye maple. Stain will seep into the grain and is hard to bleach out. |
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Brendan Mitchell
From:
Melbourne Australia
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Posted 9 Apr 2008 10:44 pm
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Hey Barry
mine is a fat back and came with 6 pedals and 2 knees , I think that was a pretty standard configuration . |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2008 8:31 am
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| I generally agree with not refinishing old guitars. I will be able to save the finish on my 59, Madison Shobud Permanent. But there's no saving the finish on my Fingertip. The lacquer is severely checked and is flaking. There are already areas of extreme loss. I'm going to have to "flood" the intricate inlays with some kinda super glue to hold them together, and gently sand off the old finish. No choice! |
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Why look for a headache 
