Reverb Comparisons

Pete Hunt · From: Massachusetts, USA

I play lap steel, a lot of R&B, blues, some country. I play mostly on Valco-made guitars right now. My favorite amp to run through is a mid-60's Princeton Reverb. I'm looking for a freestanding reverb unit to approach this sound on some other, larger, amps. By way of camparison, I've got a mid-60's Princeton without reverb and a Holy Grail reverb, and it just doesn't do it when run side by side with the Princeton Reverb. Anybody have any ideas on this? Is it an artifact of having the extra tube circuit? Of the freestanding units, is there a considerable difference between the Reissue Fenders, the old Fenders and the old Premiers (I had one of these once and liked it, but it was in the 60's, and I remember liking a lot of stuff then that curdles my stomach now).

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you can find one, I would recommend the Peavey ValvVerb.
This is a tube, spring reverb unit with a very rich sound.
They don't come cheap but really an outstanding reverb unit.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-UTimT0zmE

Here's the maker's site:

http://www.vanamps.com/solemate.htm

Brad

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

I used to have a Little Lanalei spring reverb unit which was really nice. Only thing was, the reverb sustain was a bit lacking. The Solemate Brad mentioned seems better in that department. They are a bit pricey though.
A dealer near here has 'em for $285.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Or if you want to take a step back in time, you can get a re-issue Fender spring reverb unit like this:

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

The difference you are hearing is a result of VERY significant circuit differences.

The Fender reverb amps have an extra gain stage to make up for some gain lost in the reverb section of the preamp. But it MORE than makes up for it, and the reverb channel on any Fender amp has much higher gain than the "normal" channel...or the non-reverb amps.

When you use the Grail with a non-reverb Princeton, you are just adding reverb to a low-gain amp - it's nowhere near the same as the sound of the Princeton Reverb. some like the "mellower" tone of the non-reverb amps (or "normal" channel on two-channel amps); but some think they lack punch.

Personally, I like the non-reverb Princetons and Deluxes, but only when they are cranked up. When on the edge of breakup, they have a fat, round, gutsy tone with more mids than the reverb amps. But at lower volumes, they do sound kind of weak to me.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

It's quite easy to mod the new Fender stand alone verb to the specs and tubes of the old unit. I bought one to go with my 63 Super and had the mods done. But it still ain't the same as the reverb sitting within an amps circuit.

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

Here's my set up for lap, and 6 string on blues.I like it with single coil pups,but not too great with hum buckers.
One thing that I realy like is the tone control on the reverb unit.Gives me lots of reverb without the ear piercing highs. Very Happy

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Is that Deluxe a '62? Very nice!

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

Thank you John.Yes it's a 62.I stored the original speaker and installed a Celstion.The grill was destroyed so that's not original.I preferred the chicken head knobs,easier to find on a dark stage.Have the originals stored.Replaced the leather handle.I also have it's big brother, a 62 Concert,all original.
Embarassed

Sorry for hijackin the thread topic. PJ

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Here's my favorite guitar rig. It's a 63. But the reverb does not sound as good as the reverb in my 22 watt Princeton Reverb. There's just something about having the reverb within the circuit that makes it more pleasant-sounding. I also have a Valverb. It's nice, but still has the same problem. It's in front of the amp, not in it.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I've been using this real old ART MR-1 digital verb for a long time... works great I think, and to my ear a couple of the settings are very Fender-like. If you find one used, it would be cheap I'm sure.

BTW, John B., that's a '62 Super it's sitting on. Are those great amps or what??? At one time they were fairly affordable, not in vogue I guess.

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Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts"

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

GZ 34 makes all the difference! Incredible Vibrate-oh!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Jim S. is correct about the significant circuit differences between the blackface/silverface Princeton vs. Princeton Reverb. The no-reverb model has a lot lower gain.

Still, I like the no-reverb Princeton and Deluxe a lot. I played through one of the Princetons for years at low-volume gigs. I usually used a clean boost or compressor with the compression ratio very low, but the gain turned up enough to push it up close to the Princeton Reverb level. Not distorted, just enough juice to get it out of the anemic area with a Strat or Tele. I always felt these amps were very under-rated. But they're no longer stupidly cheap anymore.

Hard to beat Fender reverb, to my tastes. I've used a couple of Premiers - it's been a while, but I seem to recall that they had a volume (gain) control, which was nice with weak amps like a Princeton or Champ. One of my harp player buddies swears by the Premier.

I don't think there's a ton of difference between the reissue and vintage Fender Reverbs. Of course, you need to replace the stock 6V6 with a NOS 6K6 to make it sound right. Yeah, the RI is on a PC board, but there's not much to the circuit. I suppose there may be some difference in the transformers, but I've had a couple and liked them. I shoulda held on to them, but I got tired of dragging around an extra box. Of course, I should have held onto the old ones I had too, but that goes for everything that passed through my fingers then. I had to keep a vintage guitar store moving, so stuff came and stuff went.

Still - so much of this is personal taste. I've tried the Valverb a few times - I agree, it was very good sounding. For a rack-mount situation, it would be perfect, to me. I should probably be looking for one of these.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

My Princeton Reverb has turned out to be a real workhorse. With the Stokes mod, Allen Xformers, and a 12" Celestion, it's 22 watts. Plenty of power for most guitar gigs. 'Bout the same as a Deluxe. It's got real Fender lush reverb, awesome bias trem, no roach, tilt-back legs, and it fits on the passenger side front floor. I know Jim doesn't like the Celestions in this amp, but it's perfect for my ultra clean fingerstyle playing. There are 7 or 8 of these giggin' around the Cleveland/Akron area that my tech has modded.

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 8 Mar 2008 5:13 pm

The T-rex Roommate Reverb is the best sounding reverb I've ever heard. Check it out.

Pete Hunt · From: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks, folks, for all the information. It's really great to have such a wealth of knowledge available. I'm going to check out the suggestions. The Solemate clip is impressive. Maybe, though, I just need to pillage my daughter's tuition money and get a Deluxe.....or two....
(kidding, of course...sort of...)
Thanks again.

Bill Leff · From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Pete:

If you are looking for something that sounds like the reverb in a Fender Deluxe Reverb amp, the Line 6 Verbzilla will get you very close.

I have a Deluxe Reverb and had the Verbzilla for awhile but got rid of it since it pretty much duplicated the DR reverb and I sold off my non-reverb amps that I bought it for. I did some A/B tests with it on the DR and it pretty much nailed it.

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

The problem is when some reverb units/pedals are plugged into the front of the amp, they tend to add hiss. If it's a newer amp with an effects loop, this isn't as likely to occur.
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Straight Ahead 500 watt mini~power amp

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

Frankly I still like the Holy Grail. The new Holier and Holiest Grails are almost unbelievable.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I admit, I do like the new Holier Molier Grail! I admit it!

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