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Topic: Dumb Question |
Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 4:07 am |
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Someone plese tell me about the Chromatic scale as it relates to the steel. I can never lay this out on paper (E9) E F F# G G# A Bb B C C# D D# E One octave begins at E and ends and begins again at E. What I'm trying to get at is in E9 what is the 9th note and how do you count this. I was thinking the 9th was F#, but, I can't count it using my scale
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 5:38 am
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| In digital electronics this is known as the "fencepost" problem. It takes 13 fenceposts to hold up 12 fence rails... |
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Chuck Thompson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 6:19 am
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hi robert - i hope i can help you - a chromatic scale is as you show: consecutive half steps (one fret distance apart) from e to e - or any note to the note an octave higher (c-c d-d etc). the 9th tone you are refering to is "counted" over an e major or (minor scale). an e major scale would be e f# g# a b c# d# e. you will notice these notes are not all consecutive half steps. the formula for this scale is> whole step - whole step - half step - whole step - whole step - whole step - half step. the notes in this major scale formula can be named 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. if you extend beyond "8" the pattern would remain and the next nore after 8 would be the 9th tone or an f#. an e 9th chord is made up of the 1 3 5 b7 and 9th tones of the scale above. notice that the 7th tone of the scale is flatted so the notes of an e9th chord would be e g# b d and f#. in the open position (no bar no pedals) these notes are present on the e9th neck. whew! that is alot of info and i hope that i helped or least did not make your confusion worse.  |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 7:28 am
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E F# G# A B C# Eb E F# G# A B C#
1 2--3---4-5-6--7-8-9-----11--13
------------------octave on 8
9 = 2 but an octave above
11 = 4 "---"---"------"
13 = 6 "-------"-------" |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 7:38 am
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Simple way, just subtract 7 for anything above 8 and the result is the note your looking for. Just an octive higher.
JE:-)> |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2008 1:19 pm Perfects, diatonic chromatic
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Define
Perfects
Diatonic
Chromatic
Thanks guys for the explanation. Although, I would like an explanation of how to determine when to count/not count half steps. Also, B0b I think I read an article on the net you wrote detailing the qualities of "C" tuning and how this tuning is superior to the E9 for music other than country. The idea of the whole note bend on E9 and its limiting factor for other types of music is intriguing. I for one would love to hear more of this type of commentary Thanks
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Bill Duve
From:
Limestone .New York, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2008 6:04 pm
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Hey Ray M.
Look over to the left at the Location  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2008 10:26 pm Re: Perfects, diatonic chromatic
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| Robert Harper wrote: |
| Also, B0b I think I read an article on the net you wrote detailing the qualities of "C" tuning and how this tuning is superior to the E9 for music other than country. The idea of the whole note bend on E9 and its limiting factor for other types of music is intriguing. I for one would love to hear more of this type of commentary Thanks |
Well, this is just one man's opinion...
I believe that the "sound effect" of one note holding a steady scale tone while another bends a full step between two other scale tones is inherently "country" sounding. This appears to be the result of cultural conditioning here in America - I have no clue if it extends to other cultures.
If you accept that premise, it stands to reason that you would have more success in crossing over to other styles if you could avoid that full step change. My diatonic tuning experiments did fulfill that expectation, but not without negative side effects.
One thing I didn't realize was that, unless you have perfect technique, the backs of your picks will make subtle sounds from the strings above the ones you are picking. On the standard tunings, adjacent strings are often harmonies. That back-of-the-pick "noise" is absorbed by and even contributes to the harmonic series of the picked note.
In contrast, the diatonic tunings place have half step and full step intervals on adjacent strings. This requires much more careful picking technique. I was only able to play the diatonic to my own satisfaction by playing without fingerpicks.
I also found temperament to be a problem. Just intonation is essentially impossible in a diatonic tuning. I tried equal temperament and it bothered my ears. I settled on meantone which works well for most music, but it seemed to break down badly on real "jazz chords". I learned why when I examined the math carefully. I can't really explain it very well so I won't try here. Suffice to say that jazz harmonies were disappointing on the diatonic copedent.
I still have my 12 string Sierra tuned to F diatonic. I take it out of the case about once a year a play with it for a while. All in all, it was an interesting experiment that I thought about for many years, then tinkered with for about a decade. Ultimately, it wasn't as useful as I expected it to be. It was a lot like playing piano in C - you can play a lot of songs, but they all sound the same.
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