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Topic: Visual intonation adjustments |
Scott Hiestand
From:
MA, U.S.A
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 12:06 pm |
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I am assuming everyone must do this but I have never heard it discussed, so I am wondering if what I am doing is "proper technique".
Technically, "correct" pitch for a given note or chord (not counting bar slants etc.) should be achieved with the bar directly over a fret. But since it is impossible to position our eyes directly over each fret, we have to visually adjust. So when I am playing an F on fret 1 for example, I position my bar to what appears to be slightly left (flat) of the fret (since if I then moved my body to the left and looked down again, I would be directly over). I can actually still see the fret marker, barely, just to the right of the center of the bar. Once I hit maybe frets 4 or 5 I am shooting close to "dead nuts", and once I go beyond say fret 12, the opposite is true, I need to position the bar slightly to the right visually, knowing it really "isn't there". (What's worse for me is, my ZB has very wide fret markers so it's easier to be "off"). Once positioned, my ear then makes any minute adjustments (hopefully at near-lightning speed!) if required.
Does this make sense and do any of you use a different technique? |
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Dennis Graves
From:
Maryville, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 12:22 pm
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Scott,
Although I've only been learning the PSG for a few months, I've been playing the dobro for 20 years. I think the same thing holds true for both. The fret is only a "rough" reference for the chord you're looking for. You have to use your ears for pinpointing the exact position. You just learn to hear it and don't even have to think about it.
Dennis |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 12:35 pm
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| I agree with Dennis. I also play dobro and lap steel and dependin on which instrument I pick up the string height will be a little different thus requireing a trained ear to get proper intonation. Just takes some practice but now I hardly think about it. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 2:19 pm
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Fret markings are meant to get you in the ball park, and that's all! If you try to use them for accurate intonation for your playing, you'll probably never be a decent player. The most important thing for a steeler is not...
the frets
the guitar
the amp
the cords
the pedal
the strings
the picks
the bar
the pickup
the tuner
or the speaker...
it's the ears.  |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 3:31 pm
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| Quote: |
| The most important thing for a steeler is... |
a spot of tea...
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 3:31 pm
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Donny is absolutely correct. A good thing to do is to cover up the fretboard entirely and then practice playing a few things daily that way, and then go back to practicing with it uncovered. That will FORCE a person to use his/her ears, better than anything else a person could do to improve their intonation.
Don |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 7:48 pm
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Heya Scott,
Yep, they're right. Trust your ears rather than than your eyes. When you lock in on the tonal center you'll hear it and feel it, but you might not see it.
Pretty guitar, eh? 
_________________
C#
Me: Steel Guitar Madness
Latest ebook: Steel Guitar Insanity
Custom Made Covers for Steel Guitars & Amps at Sharp Covers Nashville |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 7 Mar 2008 10:13 pm
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Hey Cal,
| Quote: |
| Pretty guitar, eh? |
Not only pretty, but one great sounding guitar as well. Hope you're enjoying your life of leasure (so to speak) now too.
Don |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 2:53 am Re: Visual intonation adjustments
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Scott, what you mention about the first fret is spot on (Playing to the left of it) The only guitar that compensated for "Paralax" were some of the earlier Sierra's I used to sell in London England. The fretboard's necks were curverd, higher at the front and tapering as it got to the pick/up. With those guitars if playing on the first fret you would play "ON" the fret and be right in tune. It was a visual thing. Our friends here who have mentioned "EARS" being important are bang on correct. Many years ago I read an article by Buddy Emmons where he mentioned occasionally practising with the lights out. I still occasionally do it to this day, that's the best way to train your ears for bar placement. Likewise there are so many issues on tunings and complicated tuners on the market which are quite expensive. Another article by Paul Franklin was that he just used a tuner for his E's and B's ....the rest he said "Use your ears"
Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 6:48 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
Fret markings are meant to get you in the ball park, and that's all! If you try to use them for accurate intonation for your playing, you'll probably never be a decent player. The most important thing for a steeler is not...
the frets
the guitar
the amp
the cords
the pedal
the strings
the picks
the bar
the pickup
the tuner
or the speaker...
it's the ears. |
and the Hands and the Feet and the knees, but mainly the ears..
I always thought the frets were just a guide as to the "Approximate" position to be fine tuned by the ear..Some of the top manufacturers fret markings are far from accurate as anyone who's owned a Rickenbacher model 'B' will attest. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 10:47 am
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I think that the visual thing is more important than we give credit to.
I find that, if I'm playing along to a backing track that is (for some reason) about a quarter tone flat or sharp (in other words, the bar has to be placed slap bang in the middle between two frets) my brain becomes hopelessly confused by the audio input conflicting with the visual input, and the result is invariably a train-wreck  |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 11:08 am
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To test Basil's idea about the importance of the ears, just remove your fret board.
Roger |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 3:46 pm
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The same parralax problem occurs with non-reflex cameras. As you get closer to the object you're photographing you have to compensate for the fact that you're looking through the viewfinder, but the lens which takes the photo is in a different place.
But, to me, what is more important to compensate for is the fact that you have to hold the bar at right angles to the fingerboard, which means you have to change the angle relative to your viewpoint as you slide along the fingerboard. I've often thought that a fanned fingerboard would solve that problem.
Here's Bell Cittern which I built with a fanned fretboard.
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Scott Hiestand
From:
MA, U.S.A
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Posted 8 Mar 2008 8:05 pm
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Some inereresting replies here. In hindsight, I never meant to imply the fret marker was the "be all and end all" for bar positioning, but certainly is the initial point of reference, for me anyway. And that being the case was the driving force behind my point of "visually adjusting" based on which fret you are playing on. But once the bar is "positioned", I let my ear do the rest of the fine-tuning.
It's not really clear to me what advantage would be gained by covering or removing the fingerboard for practice. I have a good ear and can hear when I am the slightest bit flat or sharp, so to me, not having a visual point of reference would only prolong the time (even just a miniscule slice) it takes to "zero in" on the pitch desired. But maybe I am missing something here... |
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