About The Sound Where Does It Come From ?????

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I have 2 friends one plays a Emmons the other plays a GFI.
The Emmons first, he gets the worst sound from it you ever heard, I have played his Emmons several times and cannot make it sound like he does, when I play it it sounds just fine and normal.

Now the GFI again here is the example his sound is so bad, I played it and it sounded as good as any of my guitars not at all like when he plays it, I cannot make it sound like he does.

There has to be something in the fact that tone is in the hands, if not why the difference when both these guitars are played by 2 different people and sound so different?? Can you explain why these guitars sound like they do when played the same way same settings and all.??
Every time Jack Conyer sits down to my guitar it sounds different than when I play it, he gets a deeper sound from the bass strings, it also sounds better than when I play it.

Also when John Le Master plays my guitars they sound a little different, When Jack Dougherty plays them they sound a little different, all these players have more playing time than I do and are better players by far.

ernie

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

Hi Ernie,
I'm sure there are many factors influencing tone. One could very well be the type picks being used. Another is where they play on the neck. I know a fellow who plays a popular, good sounding guitar, but I feel he plays too far up the neck and kills the potentially better sounding tone.
I know exactly what you're saying about the GFI too. Awful tone a certain fellow gets from his. Oh, another factor could be the bar...........
just my three cents worth....inflation ya know.
jas.

David Alley · From: St. Louis, MO, USA

The sound comes from an combination of things. the amp setting, and most important the right hand. Try playing without the amp for awhile than use the amp. This what I do and it helps me. Its the attacks you use with the right hand.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Playing with poor intonation will make even the best steel sound bad. If the guitars sound okay when you play them, I suspect it's not so much a "tone thing, but rather that those other players...just aren't very good players. Confused

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

Ernie,
I know what you mean. The first GFI that I ever saw close up, and heard, sounded like a leaf rake being dragged across a metal roof. It was goofy looking to me as well, and I swore I'd never own one.
I now own one.
I do hold the opinion that you can do a lot of things to optimize the performance, and sound of any guitar. On the other hand, there are many factors that can absolutely ruin it.

Back in January of 1983, I attended Jeff Newman's school for a week. There was a fella there that had an old Fender single 10 (pulley and cable type).
Naturally, as a fairly new player, he wasn't able to get much of a good sound out of it. By mid week, he was hating that guitar, and maybe even a little jealous of the rest of us, who had much newer axes.
Jeff overheard him grousing to a couple of us during a break one day, and calmly walked over and sat at the fella's guitar. Jeff quickly noticed that the pickup was nearly 3/8 of an inch under the strings.
After correcting the problem of the weak signal he'd been having, Jeff assured him that it would be a whole lot better. Still not satisfied, the poor guy made the mistake of grumbling again within earshot, that his guitar would never sound as good as Mr. Newmans pin striped red Dekley, sitting center stage.
Jeff had surely felt the slap of the "white glove" across his nose, and demanded that the fella bring his guitar to the stage. Jeff moved his guitar off, and set the old vintage oddity in it's place.
After a minute or so, of familiarizing himself with the guitar,... whaddaya know?...it sounded just like...Jeff. The poor guy just couldn't believe his own ears. That was his guitar up there. It was full, and rich,...warm, and crystal clear.
Jeff had an amazing stereo set up, and the sound just swirled all around us like a cozy flannel blanket.
Quite frankly, we were all amazed at the results of the demonstration, and Jeff had quickly restored the mans affections for his old guitar, and succeeded in salvaging the rest of the trip for him.
Knowing Jeff, that was the primary objective.

Every once in a while, I need to remember that day. To remind myself that all of those really horrible guitars out there, just might not be so bad after all.

By the way Ernie, how's your new gadget (Slyde-car) working out?

Your pal, Dale

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

I've noticed the same situation. Other people can play my guitars and they get a much better sound from them than I do. Nick

"It's all in the Hands"

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Dale it slides down the legs about 3".

ernie

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I won't say it's all in the hands, but I think that as long as an instrument is workable and has good basic sound and playability, the hands (and brain) have more to do with it than anything.

I have seen this personally demonstrated more times than I can count. Guy walks into a guitar store, takes a guitar, plugs it in, plays it and says, "Man, that really is a lousy guitar." Then a good player comes along, grabs the guitar, makes a few adjustments, and instantly - magic. I have seen plenty of guitars sold just that way. With the preponderance of hack "investors" in the vintage guitar biz, I think it's more common than ever in the 6-string world.

But I also don't think that the guitar makes no difference. Even if nobody else can tell, I think I can somehow sense a difference between different guitars I play - steel or 6-string. In addition, playability can certainly affect the way one plays.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I am talking about the same guitar same settings just different players. James Marlow was at 1 place I was talking about he heard the same thing. When the owner played it sounded bad when I played it it sounded just like I do on most guitars I play.

ernie

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

I had the same problem with a student of mine and i realized that when i took his volume pedal away his tone improved a 100%, he was pumping the pedal every time he picked a note plus his bar had a slite slant over the strings, now he has decent tone, and at times it's agood tone.

Larry Hamilton · From: Amarillo,Tx

What Roger said. A good friend of mine just kills the tone of his Mullen or any of the guitars I have had with his volume pedal. I got him to put his foot on a 2x4 and practice. His tone immediatly improved but he complained of it being too thin and tinney. so instead of adjusting his amp he just went back to pumping the pedal and griping about his tone.
_________________
Keep pickin', Larry

Jack Dougherty · From: Spring Hill, Florida, USA

Ernie...

Thanks for including me in this thread Surprised

As to the the tone issue....I believe we can all agree we all hear notes differently. That is the tone so to speak. So based on the tone of the better players we can make a fair assesment of what good tone should be. For myself, if I play someone elses guitar I sit the same way and position my hands the same way and control the volume the same way etc.
So I think it's a matter of placement and execution.
Also amp settings come into play but that goes back to the players ear. Too many components are involved to make it an exact science. So the moral of the story is Listen Listen Listen......Practice Practice Practice

JD
_________________
There is no such thing as too many steels!!
Emmons P/P 8/7 Strings....whatever I have.....Picks..mixed...Bars...one of four..but I like the Bullet Bar
Walker Stereo Steel Amp

TC M1 XL
Peavey Nashville 400. Fox Mod
Various sundries and toys..

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Jack we are talking about the same settings but 2 different players on the same guitar as when Bobbe played and then I played his guitar and what a different sound, like day and night on the same guitar, same settings. Elmo at the little house in Ga. same thing I cannot git the horible sound he gets from his single Emmons, he pumps the pedal very bad and is part of the problem. and he has been playing the same thing since 1991, thats how long I have known him, he does not want to do differeent and will not practice.

ernie

Wayne Wallett · From: Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.

Any good brand guitar, any good amp, and a good pair of hands. Good equipment in bad hands sounds bad. Good equipment in good hands sound great. Usually if you pick over the 24th fret or close will sound the best. If you get out of that zone the tone goes away. Sometimes I intentionally get close to the pickup to get the west-coast Fender sound but usually over the 24th fret is in the zone. Don't overuse the volume pedal by pumping it. Don't quiver your bar too much but gently roll it instead. Try to play with more volume on the pedal and pick a bit lighter. Another thing I found back some years ago was the thin Geo-L cables do wonders for your tone. Good luck and keep practicing.
Wayne-bob

Jack Stanton · From: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey

"About The Sound Where Does It Come From ?????"
Your hands!

About 25 years ago I went to see a student of mine play. He asked me to sit in on his ProI. I played a set, and at the end of the night we were standing there talking when the keyboard player came up and ask him " how come when you play your guitar it sounds like a Fender, and when he (pointing to me) plays it sounds like a Gibson?
The sad part of this story is I much prefer the sound of Fender guitars!

Carl Vilar · From: New Jersey USA

Ernie Having played guitar for over 36 years both pick and finger picking I think that it mostly comes from the right hand. On the steel bar technigue and fret where you are picking comes in to play even the bar being used but nothing affects sound more at least to me than the attack on the string. I try to be more finessed about it and use volume pedal to achieve loudness. Harsh attack and pumping of volume pedal is going to make any guitar sound bad. By the way the Bud sounds incredible very sweet sounding steel and it plays like a dream.
_________________
JCH 9/7
1971 Blond Twin Reverb 15" custom
Randall Steel Man 500

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

I think that it is in both hands. The position of the picking hand when striking strings, and the pick-string attack. But also bar movement. If the bar is not positioned correctly, the subtle frequency differences will affect the sound a lot. Most people put different amounts of pressure on the front of the bar than on the back. This can be good or bad, depending on whether or not it's what you're trying to do. I also think that all of these things have to do with muscle memory. It takes time, and practice. I started when I was too old, and I have so much trouble with tone and sound.

Wayne Wallett · From: Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.

Additional thought...... I think way too much is made of having the right bar to sound a certain way. A student of mine asked me what the difference in tone was in different bars. I took three different bars (his and two of mine) and played and all sounded the same, very little tone difference. A BJS, Pearse, and many others will do just fine. Too often we are looking for the silver bullet and all the while it is the man behind the guitar that's the main ingredient. Good equipment and good hands and technique are key to good sound.
Regards,
Wayne

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

In Bobbe's shop I learned that I wasn't pressing near hard enough on the bar compared to some pickers...

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