Suggestions for Tube Preamp

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

After trying several fender tube amps, I've come back to my Steel King. I really enjoy the tones I get out of it. However, I am still wanting some "tube" sound. I am currently doing some creeping whiskey/murder ballads that I want more sustain than I'm getting from my FSK. Should I try just some type of distortion pedal or a tube pre amp, or both? And what are some suggestions for both that are in the $100- $200 price range(a piece). I have a tube screamer and don't really like the sound for PSG. Thanks, Cody
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

David Doggett · Posted 7 Jan 2008 8:01 am

If you want some extra sustain without distortion, try a compressor. As for distortion/sustain, my current favorite is the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube. It is configured as a stomp box, but actually is a two channel tube preamp. There is a wide range of distortion/sustain, as well as true bypass. It's $299, so a little beyond your price range. I think it's worth it, and you might be able to find one used for less. The Voodoo Sparkle Drive is another good box, which lets you mix clean signal with distortion. The ZenDrive and ZenDrive 2 are also getting raves, but there is a long waiting list unless you buy for a jacked up price on eBay. Whatever you get, experiment with putting it both before and after the volume pedal, to see what works best for you. I prefer the distortion unit before the volume pedal, so I control it with pick sensitivity and just use the volume pedal to sustain what I get with my picking.

This leads to an obvious question. A major function of the volume pedal with steel guitar is sustain. If you set your amp volume high enough, you can attack your notes with the volume pedal only 1/4 to 1/3 on. You then have the remaining throw of the volume pedal to sustain your notes and chords. Most steelers get enough sustain that way. If you are playing with your volume pedal almost all the way on and are running out of volume pedal sustain, then your amp volume is set too low, or you need a more powerful amp.

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Thanks David. You know I haven't even thought the volume pedal in that capacity. I've only been playing PSG for a couple of years and live for about 6 months now. That makes alot of sense. I still want a little tube tone though. And I can actually afford a little more, maybe $500 for a quality tube preamp that I can use for a while. I just don't have $900 for a Revolation... yet. As far as distortion, I'm kind of thinking of the Eric Heywood sound with the Uncle Tupalo stuff. Without having to completely change my rig.
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Does anyone have any sound clips or know where I can find some of the Seymore Duncan Twin Tube with PSG. The only ones I've found so far are of guys playing pointy guitars through them at high distortion levels. Thanks
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

David Doggett · Posted 7 Jan 2008 10:31 am

I've got some examples of the SD Twin Tube coming out on a CD soon, maybe I can get some advance samples to send you. Dan Tyack clued me into it, and I think he has tracks using it, and he definitely has tracks of him getting grit and sustain with his THD tube amp. I play through Fender tube amps. They are clean silver-face amps, so with the amp alone I have clean tube tone, and with the SD Twin Tube I have as much tube overdrive/distortion as I want.

Mike Winter · From: Portland, OR

Try the Alembic F2B...it's based on the Fender Showman/Bassman circuit and I think it sounds pretty good with the steel.

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

I'm a big fan of the Realtube RT-902, especially with a 12AU7 plugged in place of the stock 12AX7.
Usually under $100 and easy to resell if you don't like it.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=100842&highlight=rt902

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Its not tube, but I use a goodrich steel driver3. It gives a pretty huge amount of sustain, and it warms my steel king up a bit as well.
A black box may give you the tube sound you want. People seem to love-em

also make sure you clean and change your strings often. Old strings dont sustain
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Cody,

if money is an issue, it's pretty hard to beat a used Mesa Boogie studio pre. They do an adequate clean and a real nice dirty tone too. It's a true tube preamp as long as you keep the graphic EQ bypassed (it's transistor).

Some people like the "Real Tube" preamps, but I'll tell you, they're not "real" tube preamps. They are almost entirely transistor preamps with the critical input stage NOT a tube. They simply add a couple of stages of tube in the mix of things. The tubes operate at starved voltages and really don't bring out what's so great about cleanly run tubes operating at real voltages. They definitely sound sweeter than an all-transistor preamp, but they can't touch a "real" tube preamp. I was always bothered by the name, "Real Tube" because it's very much not "real". Deceptive marketing. But they are by far the cheapest, halfway decent way to go if your budget is too tight for even the Boogie. They really don't sound bad.

Brad

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Ya, I've become fanitical about changing my strings. Every 10 days or so. I just got a new black Carter pro and it sounds better when it and the strings are shiny and clean!
Thanks Brad. I've read several of your opinions about these preamps. The Mesa is one I've been doing some research on and have liked what I've heard. By the way Brad...A friend of mine is the soundman for the Springfield, Mo based band Big Smith and he's been using the black boxe for their fiddle player and raves about it. Said it was the cure all for getting the fiddle to sound right. I've heard it and I'd have to agree. Thanks for the input.
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Is this the mesa preamp your talking about?

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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Yup,

That be the one.

Brad

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

The same rig that Kurt Cobain used is popular with steel players? Gotta love the music world! He probebly found his in a dumpster and was psyched to have an amp.
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Brad - Is this more accurate?

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Paul,

that's hilarious!

Laughing

Brad

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

The Electro Harmonix Tube Mic Pre is a real killer for a very small price. You can get a better tone out of it with 12AT7's and there are sites that have mods listed for it.
I think Eric Heywood (a forum member) used a Vox AC50- if you want that tone you may have to get a bit more unconventional.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

I saw Eric Heywood last spring with Ray LaMontagne and it appeared that he played both steel and guitars thru the same pedalboard and guitar amp. No real "steel" rig to speak of.

Brad

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Ya, I read the thread on Eric's rig. I'm not really trying to recreate his rig/tone, more like going that direction with what I can afford. Personally, I don't want to shoot for anyones exact rig, but steering myself in a direction of a proven tone that I like. Of coure there are lots of different tones from different steel players that are diserable. I have a Presonis Tube Pre that I like ok, but that's probebly because it's the only tube preamp I've really ever used. Also it has alot of background hum and seems to excite the preamp clip light on my SK. Thanks for everyones help. Still open to all ideas!
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

Anyone with experience using an Avalon U5 as a steel preamp. I have one that I use for my banjo. I've been fooling around with it today for steel. Sounds pretty good so far but have to use it in a gig setting to say for sure.
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

I have an Avalon U5 that I used in my listening tests when working on my SPLIT self powered cabinets. IMHO it doesn't get close to a tube pre like the Revelation. I did play through a U5 on Catherine Russell's Cat album. If you'd like to hear what it sounds like it's The Late,Late Show song http://www.worldvillagemusic.com/anglais/album.php?album_id=79
TC

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Most 12AX7-based tube preamps will give you the sustain but a very "buzzy" distortion tone - NOTHING like an overdriven tube amp, where you are hearing distortion from the output stage - output tube distortion AND transformer saturation. That's the smooth, sustained distortion sound I think you're probably hearing in your head.

And to put it simply, there's no "magic box" that gets you there. I have owned, played (or still have) probably a hundred or more different overdrive, distortion, tube-emulation and other gadgets, and none of them get you the same tone as a tube amp turned up to "10". The best you can hope for is to get close - the only way you can get that sound is to use a second amp; a smaller tube guitar amp like a Princeton Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, or some other tube amp in the 20-watts or less range, and A/B switch from the SK to the small amp when you want that type of tone.

Otherwise, nearly everything you find will be similar to your Tube Screamer (if it's an overdrive), a Fuzz Face (fuzztone) or an MXR Distortion Plus (a dstortion unit - different than fuzz). FWIW I don't care for stompbox compressors, which will give you some sustain but crush the life out of your tone and attack.

Basically, it's "you can't get there from here" situation with your amp - you'll just have to try different combinations and get as close as you can, finding something you can live with as a compromise. But my choice is the two-amp setup, as I don't like the compromised "box" sounds...I like boxes for other uses, but not to try to duplicate the sound of a tube amp driven hard.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

I used to gig with one band using my '68 Deluxe Reverb with a JBL D120 in it for steel guitar. That amp was plenty loud to fill a bar the way 6-string guitar should. It didn't have the clean bigness of a "steel" amp, but tonally it was just gorgeous the way it would break up and smooth out for dirtier NRPS, GP, and other dirtier rock-ish steel tones. It was really a hard tone to beat. Jim it right. Nothing nothing nothing will give the sound of pushed power tubes. The trick is to start looking at amps with lower and lower power ratings to find the perfect match for the situation. For some loud gigs, a Twin really is the answer. For most normal volumes, the 40-watt family of Fenders will be more usable at dirty levels. Then for smaller bars and venues, the Deluxe (22 to 24 watts) category is great. Then you can also tailor loudness with the JBL factor. They are so incredibly efficient that they can nearly double the volume of an amp, at least in the mids and highs. A JBL in a Deluxe is a sound to behold.

Brad

Cody Russell · From: Arkansas, now in Denver

At this point I think I've decided to go with my steel king and whatever "tube" preamp I can get my hands on until I can afford a boogie studio, alembic or revolation. I've think I have gotten the tube screamer dialed in where I can deal with it with a little bit of tube preamp. I can't really afford several rigs and I think that the steel king is a great versital amp. My Deville sounds good but every thing I read about them turned out to be true. At a high volume it just became too muddy so that you couldn't decipher the base runs. At a lower volume it sound terrific, but I need something that can do both and I believe the SK/tube pre combo does it. My Carter seems to have a naturally hot sound to it. More of a rock and roll tone than the pedalmaster I used to have. Maybe that's all in my head...I dunno. The point is, with the help of all you audiophiles, tone freaks, electronic geeks and veterans of the steel guitar I have an endless list of things to wish for and will never have a savings account with any money in it. I should of learned to play that mandolin I traded for my first slide guitar. To late now, so if you got any more ideas, lay em on me.
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carter pro, 66 twin revrerb, steel king, tut taylor dobro, gibson rb 250

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

With all due respect $500 for a tube preamp so you can put it in front of a solid state amp???.. That never made much sense to me... Buy yourself a $500 tube amp and be done with it.. You are in the zone of a used silverface Twin Reverb at that level or even a Silverface Showman Head and Holy Grail..., just hook up a Holy Grail Reverb to the head and a 1x15 or 2x12 cab and you're off to the races... Otherwise, spend $50 and get a compressor... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

The ART for 429.00 OR THE BEHRINGER MIC 200 FOR $49.00 WORKS FOR ME

ERNIE

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