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Topic: MSA WHY? |
Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 2:47 pm |
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Over the years I have owened a lot of steels[I used to like to trade a lot]The first was a Fender,lots of Sho-Buds,Pro 1's,Pro 2's Pro 3's,LDG'S,a ZB,two ZUMS,two Derby's,A Remington,A new GFI ultra a s10 Emmons,And my present guitar a thirtyfive year old MSA D-10 CLASSIC which I've had longer than any of the others,All of the others,every one,were GREAT guitars,but I don't think any of them were built any better than the MSA,NEVER had any problems with her,she's solid as a rock,she is heavy,but so were the Sho-Bud D-10's,Looking through the for sale section,The MSA'S seems not to hold their value compared to some of the others,My question is WHY?DYKBC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 3:07 pm
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It could be because of the quantity that were built. I have no idea how many were built, but there are still lots of them around, they just never wear out. I'm just finishing the restoration of a '74 Classic D10, and every time I work on one of these, I'm amazed at the quality and precision. I have a '75 Classic S12 that's my next restoration project. I love these MSA's.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 3:17 pm
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Darvin,That's about the age of mine,Reese told me one time,I think it is a 73 or 74,still looks and plays great,I think those guys were ahead of the times when they were building these,Mine still has Bud Carter's signature on it.DYKBC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 4:18 pm
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MSA's hold their value very well. They do not appreciate rapidly due to both the numbers made, and due to the few famous players that used them.
It's mostly just myth and rarity that makes an instrument's value increase significantly, and myth is by far the biggest of those two factors. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 6:36 pm
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Bobbe has a nice MSA D-10 and a nice Derby D-10 on his site,there is a thousand dollars difference,also a beautiful MSA S-10 for 1399.00.I just don't get it.DYKBC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 6:42 pm
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MSA steels had a reputation of being muddy sounding, and few "names" played them with regularity except Chalker.. They don't seem to enjoy the "cache" other brands had. not much "snob appeal"
I would disagree , I always thought they sounded fine, just not as distinctive as the other "biggies" of the day, Bud and Emmons,,
The wood body MSA Classics sound wonderful IMHO, when the pickups are changed..
Never liked MSA pickups much, but lots of guys do..personal taste I guess.. they were warm sounding..
As stated they are bulletproof.. most of them are still working as new without a rebuild, and I would bet most will outlive thier owners..
They are superlative steels... I agree also that they are pretty ubiquitous.. Very easy to find clean used MSA steels..
They had a good distribution network, and were more readily available than other brands.. I bought my first S10 Classic 5+ 4 in a small music store in Lyndhurst NJ...Brand new out the door $700 with case and MSA volume pedal with bracket... Greatest steel bargain around in the 70's... and still are today.. bob
Last edited by Bob Carlucci on 30 Dec 2007 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 6:44 pm
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I paid ( I traded a couple guitars for it to a Norlin Dealer) the equivalent of about a $1000 for my first steel, an MSA Classic S10 4&5 in 1974 & sold it last year for about $1000. Did that hold its' value?
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Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 7:45 pm
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I bought my new MSA Classic D10 Wood, in November 1976
for $1800. I sold it the summer of 1989 for $1800.
I wonder where my green beauty is today... |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 9:24 pm
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| these are the reasons i advise new players to try to find a used msa instead of spending big money on a new student model. |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 11:31 pm
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Good Chris, I agree, these guitars are very reasonable used. However weight, size, parts availability, service and tone seem to be what most buyers are concerned about, this keeps the prices where new young players (with good backs) can afford them. This is a good thing. They are great guitars for the correct purchase money. I have two in stock now that are excellent guitars and perfect for the correct use. I'd sell either for a grand, Both are the best pro models. One Double, one single. (and black!)
Bobbe |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 11:39 pm
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As most of you know. I love the Emmons P-P guitars, but I'd recommend the MSA pro used over the P-P for a beginner anytime, after he learns his stuff, he may wish to go another direction. This will be up to the uses he will be putting the guitar through, there doesn't seem to be the perfect guitar for every use, or every person.
All you guys have your preferences, I have mine and Donny Hinson has his! Ha! Ha!
Merry Christmas and a Happy new year Donny! Your buddy,
Bobbe |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 30 Dec 2007 11:55 pm
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As a guitar, I loved my '74 D-10 classic. But at 85 pounds in the case and hernia surgery looming, it just went over the weight limit. The mechanics were solid as a rock, and I thought it sounded great, Supersustain pickups and all. Of course, I sort of agree with the idea that, to a large degree at least, tonality can be controlled by the player, and I love the Chalker tone anyway, so I figure that any tonal deficiencies were my own doing. Of course, one can change pickups about as easy as changing hairstyles, and people do this for all makes - so I can't understand why that would be any sort of basis to not consider one of these. Mine also certainly held its value - I had it for a few years, and I'm sure I could have sold it for more than I actually did (it was MINT, MINT, and I almost never call a guitar that), and I easily got my money out of it.
I'll be honest - my MSA was the first PSG that I was totally comfortable under. It was BIG, and with a 2" lift kit, I felt like I finally had found a totally ergonomically comfortable steel.
I will eventually dig up one of the wood-bodied universals, which I believe are quite a bit lighter. |
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Paul Wade
From:
mundelein,ill
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 5:04 am msa
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well like charles i to have lot's of p.s.g's shobud.
mullen Z.B's had a 69 d-10 emmons push pull"shoun't
not sold that one"  deklkey's . but, i alway's come back to m.s.a's i have classic d-10 xl and just
pick up a walnut color m.s.a classic ss d-10 which i am going to refurb... they are great guitars soild as
rock...
p.w |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 5:39 am
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| Bo Borland wrote: |
| I paid ( I traded a couple guitars for it to a Norlin Dealer) the equivalent of about a $1000 for my first steel, an MSA Classic S10 4&5 in 1974 & sold it last year for about $1000. Did that hold its' value? |
For you, no. You simply paid too much, and sold for too little.
It happens. |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 10:34 am
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Gee Donny, he needs to work for me, this is my way of doing it.
Ole' Bo is a good guy and learning fast.
Bobbe
Last edited by Bobbe Seymour on 1 Jan 2008 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 2:23 pm
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Some of you guys proved my point,you bought an MSA years ago for x amount years ago then sold it years later for the same thing,But some of the Bud's and Emmons that were bought years ago bring two or three times that much,About 30 years I bought a brand new Emmons S10 with 3 and 4 for around a grand,If I still had it today,bet it would sell for a hell of a lot more.DYKBC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 3:20 pm
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I was told by a reliable source when I started out on steel that old MSA's held the reputation of not having that commercial sound of the Sho~Buds and Emmons guitars. I owned a lacquer MSA Universal 12 and thought it sounded great. I only sold it because I returned to S10. I think they're great guitars, but there is a notion out there that the old MSA's don't have what many are looking for in a country steel sound, hence the lack of mystique that old 'Buds and Emmons guitars seem to retain today. I'm only relaying conversations and things I've been told. But this myth persists. I'm sure many of you have heard similar things being said.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 5:35 pm
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I chose an MSA semi classic as my first guitar last year. I happened to choose a black one before I found out that black ones are superior guitars! Although I've owned no other steels to compare it to, it's plenty of guitar, especially for the price of $550 I paid for it. Three pedals and only 2 "Es" knees. I decided I'd rather start on something with a little more "soul" than some of the "starter" guitars. Maybe it's an aversion to the word "starter". 
My point: great value here. I'm anxious to play a vintage 'bud or Emmons some time for comparison, but I am getting decent tone from it that I'm happy with. I'll probably stay on it for another year or so, perhaps add another knee, and then I'll bet I can sell it for what I put in it. That's like 2 years of playing for just the cost of strings!
Most of what I know about pedal steel comes from here, and it does seem that the old MSAs have a certain reputation for not quite sounding "country" enough, sounding too dark or warm, but being super reliable. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 6:16 pm
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| Chris LeDrew wrote: |
| I was told by a reliable source when I started out on steel that old MSA's held the reputation of not having that commercial sound of the Sho~Buds and Emmons guitars. |
If we make the analogy of 6 string guitars, MSAs are like a big Gibson hollow body, while Emmons and Sho-bod are like telecasters. Collectors item value aside, at a time when Teles and Strats rule, fewer people are interested in playing, a hollow body.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Andy Jones
From:
Mississippi
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 6:43 pm
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I have a '74 MSA Classic D-10,8X4,that I bought 2years ago to learn how to play.Yes,it's black.It is serving me very well,stays in tune and doesn't break strings often.I've never played another guitar,so I can't compare it to anything else.It suits me just fine.I intend to get a newer guitar when i learn to play better.As far as weight goes,it is heavy;but at 55 I don't have any problems hauling this jewel around.I'm used to heavy lifting and carrying.Besides,I can put on my fireman's turnout gear,get under the guitar and survive anything but a flood.That's OK because I live on a very high hill.
Andy |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 7:39 pm
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I got hold of my MSA D 10 Classic about 3 years ago...about $1,100.00 and since then I have found that the guitar in my book is in mint condition. I have learned a lot about the use of pedals and knee levers and chords...the only real problem I have had is the location of the A pedal but I can live with that. It has the half stop on the D# knee lever, I purchased a couple George Ls back in Feb. from Bobbe Seymour and put them in it. I remember Reece telling me that it was built about 1974. Theres just something about the wooden necks that make me feel better about the sound of this guitar. The guitar weighs a ton but I'm disabled and don't leave the house so lifting it is no problem.
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Jan 2008 11:44 am
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John, what is the problem with the A pedal? It is in the usual spot according to the picture...
Do you play Day or Emmons setup? Just asking because i see where your foot is on the 2 and 3 pedals...
Brian, Chris: Not wanting to start another war about where the sound lies, but Curly Chalker with his MSA (Green) certainly did get the standard country sound did he not? Like in this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDH38bEKbws |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 1 Jan 2008 12:37 pm
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| Hi Bent. The problem I had with the A pedal is that it sets further to the left than I need it ...the body of the older MSAs were quite a bit longer therefore the pedals were harder to get to...this one was set up for ten pedals instead of eight...I thought once about moving all the pedals to the right but thats easier said than done. Other than that , the guitar is a jewel. I use the standard pedal set up rather than the Jimmy Day. If the lottery numbers ever pop up I'll get me an MSA Millinium or a Legend but the way my luck goes...when my ship comes in I'll probably be at the airport lol. Happy New Year |
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Lowell Whitney
From:
Waynoka, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2008 2:54 pm
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Hi John, Had the same situation with my Dekley. I flipped the pedal bar over,then reversed the pedal ball connectors from right to left side of pedals. Nothing changed on the undercarriage. This moved my A pedal nearly 2" to the right. Not a lot but it did make a difference. Don't know if this will work on your MSA but would be an easy solution if it will. The reason I flipped my pedal bar is because the holes in the back were drilled about an inch farther from that end than on the other.
Wishing you and yours a Happy and Prosperous New Year. 
Lowell
_________________
Carter SD10
70's Telecaster
Nashville 400/Express 112/Artist VT Bandit |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 1 Jan 2008 5:03 pm
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Bent, I totally agree with you. I was just stating what was said to me and what I had heard. I think an MSA can sound as country as the rest of the brands. Curly is out of this world. His style is overriding the tone of the guitar, so I'm not sure if it matters what brand he is playing.  I heard a link with him playing a 'Bud and it sounded very similar to his sound with the MSA. Thanks for the link!
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Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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