Raises and lowers

Greg Wisecup · From: Troy, Ohio

Sorry all; newbie question. I did a search to no avail. With all of the different changers dbl,trpl, quad, ect.
what exactly do they mean? Dbl= 1 note or whole step? Trpl= 1&1/2 note in the pitch change? My reason for asking is when I upgrade to from my Carter Starter does the basic set up have to be the same so that I don't need to relearn what lever does what? / or is a relearn normal to some degree. I do not want to get into mechanical changes at this point. My specific example is what am I going to have to relearn going from my Starter to the Sierra Mr.Fox is offering? Sorry for the lenghth. PLease explain to me as if I were a 4 year old. Thanks in advance, Greg

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I'd make sure the next guitar I bought was an all pull mechanism with the changer. At least three raises and lowers.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Always ask for the copedent when comparing. The copedent is the string and pedal tuning/setup for a particular guitar. The Sierra copedent is on the sale thread, I believe it is the same as a carter starter with the addition of the 4th pedal.

If you dont want to relearn your setup then dont get any of these: Universal tunings are different (a mix of the C6 style with E9),C6 is different and stay away from the Mooney set up unless you want a challenge.

Also pay attention to whether its an Emmons setup or a Day setup. The pedals are reversed.

your carter's pedals are ABC (Emmons)
Day's where CBA (reversed)

most e9's are Emmons the same as yours and the seller will specify if its different.

hope that helps
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Greg, the nomenclature, i.e. triple raise, double lower f.i., relates to the number of times a changer can raise or lower a particular string. In the photo attached, guitar upside down, you will notice 3 holes in the raise finger and 2 in the lower. You can insert a rod in every finger hole to the pedal or lever of your choice and have as many changes that the string gauge and travel adjustment will allow.

In the photo, this changer is referred to as a triple raise/double lower unit.
There are other methods, ala the tandem block, to effect changes as well.

I hope this is the info you were seeking and I apologize if it seems overly basic and sophomoric to you. Good Luck Exclamation

[The pic quality is not the best, and I'll look for a better one, but perhaps this will give you a general idea of what I describe.]
http://usera.imagecave.com/prosteel/M/mrodlocate.jpeg

Greg Wisecup · From: Troy, Ohio

Thanks Jerry. So if it's a double raise on string 4 and my lkl raises that string; does that mean applying half of the lever gets me 1/2 note raise and full apply gets me a full note? The same way I would apply say a 1/2 A pedal?

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

As to your changer question, the double or triple raise or lower refers to how many different raises or lowers you can have on any particular string on an all-pull guitar. If you look under your guitar you can see the individual pull rods that make the connection between the bellcranks and the individual fingers on the changer. Watch the mechanism as you press on a pedal or engage a knee lever. For example, a double raise, double lower guitar would let you have up to two pedals or levers (with connecting pull rods) that raise a particular string and up to two pedals or levers (with connecting pull rods) that lower a particular string. It doesn't refer to how much the string is raised or lowered (i.e. a half-step, whole step, step and a half). On an E9 tuning for example, the third or C pedal on an Emmons setup raises the 4th string a whole tone while the "left knee left" lever raises that same string a half tone. Additionally, another knee lever will usually lower the 4th string a half-tone. If you looked under a guitar with that setup, you would see two pull rods connecting to the raise portion of the 4th string of your changer and one rod connecting to the lower portion of the 4th string of your changer. In general, setups for a C6 tuning can be a little "busier" (requiring a triple raise for example) than an E9 tuning with more pedals and knee levers and consequently more "pulls" involved.
Depending on the manufacturer, year, and model, some steels are easier to change setups on than others. Probably best to buy a steel setup somewhere close to what you're used to although over time you will get used to playing a different setup if you're unable to easily change it to a setup you're familiar with.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

No, sorry if I didn't make it clear. It means you can raise tha same string 2 different times on 2 different devices [lever or pedal] to 2 different pitches or the same pitch on another location as desired. F.I., you can connect a pull rod to a lever, say LKL, and raise the E string to F via a Knee Lever via the nylon tuner on that rod at the end plate, and insert another rod into the same finger and connect it to pedal C and raise the same string to F# using the nylon tuner on that rod. Clear as mud, eh Question

The pitch limitation is determined by the string gauge and the amount of device travel, which is variably adjustable via the finger hole/bellcrank/stop selection, for a particular pull train.

Edited to add:while the postion of the rod in the changer finger has a minor effect on the amount of travel necessary, the major one is the position of the rod in the bellcrank on the opposite length of the rod.

I'm sure someone here will offer a graphic that will demonstrate the action more clearly.

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

Carter has a lot of good info about things like this on their website, plus tips on tuning, changing strings Etc. To find the site click on the LINKS at the top of this page.

Greg Wisecup · From: Troy, Ohio

Thanks guys I got it. I thought it was a note changing issue as opposed to a mechanical issue. I understand it perfectly. Thanks again, Greg

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

Greg,

Everything you learn on the Carter Starter is going to be applicable to any upgrade guitar you acquire. The pro models will support all those changes and much more. Just follow the advice above and the changer won't become a limitation.

Ron
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Emmons Lashley LeGrande II

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