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Topic: "AF" versus "D" in harmonized scales |
Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 5:01 am |
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I was working on some harmonized scales (walk-ups, walk-downs, connecting neck positions) on the E9th 4th and 5th strings and got to wondering if folks had any preferences for using the A pedal/F lever positon versus the D lever position two frets higher. Would it be a matter of (1) using the most convenient (i.e. closest) position to where you want to go or (2) does the whole tempered tuning thing come into it with the 4th string F lever being tuned 18 cents flat in a Jeff Newman tuning, causing the AF sound to be slightly different from the D sound two frets up. Any thoughts?
And just to lighten things up a little, I was behind a car yesterday with the license plate "13AF" Didn't know if he was a steeler who requested "10" and had to settle for an inversion  |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 9:48 am
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A/F = you could move both notes if required, with out moving the bar.
D = you can move one note with out moving the bar.
Of course the melody line would always be the deciding factor in which position to use at any given point in the song.
Good point about the different tonality of the positions and something to consider if your working something out.
I'd say I use them both, all the time.
JE:-)> |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 10:06 am
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I think it depends on whether you need major chord continuity on the 3rd and 6th strings. The A+F position gives you a major chord that includes those strings. The knee lever position (lowering the E's) gives you a 6th tone, not a 5th, on the 3rd and 6th strings.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 10:17 am
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They both work, and you can switch around. Whichever sounds the best at the moment, or feels the most natural to play is the one you'll end up using, just naturally.
There are subtle differences in the way they sound...a slide into a change as opposed to just making a pedal or KL change, for example. This little deal about being able to play these similar movements in two positions is one of the neat things about the E9 tuning.
Then there is the tuning factor. Since lowering your 4th string tends to present problems with it's returning to pitch, you might use the E raise more often, if playing in tune becomes an issue. If believe this is the reason Lloyd Green doesn't lower his 4th string.
Good question...
Last edited by Skip Edwards on 31 Dec 2007 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 10:27 am
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I mostly use the D lever approach when moving down the neck (ex fret 7 to 5) and the AF when moving up the neck, mainly for the smoothness of the pitch change.
Also note that with the B-Bb or B-A change on string 5 you can move both notes.
On the 18 cents flat issue, as long as you aim high for the AF, the two notes can be tuned to the same relative pitch as with the D (ignoring the return issue already mentioned), but even so they still sound different due to string tension.
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Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 5:13 pm
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On the A+F position you can switch knee levers to drop the 4th and 8th strings from F to D# - a very nice moving tone.
Two frets higher, same strings with E's lowered, you can release the knee as you press the 3rd pedal, raising the 4th string from D# up to F# - another very nice moving tone. On a push-pull you don't even have to release the lever, because "raises win".
Some forethought is a good idea. If you know where the melody's going, you can make the a smart decision about which position to use. Both positions are good, and both are chocked full of cool moving tone effects.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2007 7:21 pm
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| I echo Scott's post |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2008 4:48 am
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Many thanks for the interesting responses.
Happy New Year to all.... |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2008 9:34 am
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Timely discussion for me. I was just reviewing (okay, relearning) Jeff's Just Play The Melody where both of the scales mentioned are used.
I suspect any tonal differences are going to be noticed by the steel player and not by anyone else in the room-- or elsewhere in the free world. 
Anyway, thanks for asking the question. Now we've got several ideas to try.
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HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II |
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