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Topic: stoopid question time |
Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:09 pm |
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My present guitar has a lever I'm not sure of. It lowers my 6th string a whole tone and that's all is does.
My question is... what can I do with it? I mean like, someone thought it as a good idea.
I'm about to get another guitar and wondering if I should even have that lever on it.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina
Last edited by Antolina on 12 Dec 2007 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:28 pm
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| RC Antolina wrote: |
My present guitar has a lever I'm not sure of. It raises my 6th string a whole tone and that's all is does.
My question is... what can I do with it? I mean like, someone thought it as a good idea. |
You sure it's not raising your 7th string a whole tone? That's not uncommon...
Last edited by Jim Cohen on 12 Dec 2007 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:33 pm
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My bad Jim. It lowers the string, not raise and yes, it's the 6th string.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:40 pm
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| Ah, well in that case, you'll get a whole raft of answers as to how people use that change. Wait right here... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 8:50 pm Re: stoopid question time
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| RC Antolina wrote: |
My present guitar has a lever I'm not sure of. It lowers my 6th string a whole tone and that's all is does.
My question is... what can I do with it? I mean like, someone thought it as a good idea.
I'm about to get another guitar and wondering if I should even have that lever on it. |
A lot of people find it useful. Think of it like this:
Press your B pedal and pick strings 4, 5 and 6. Now squeeze onto your A pedal (A+B). Hear that sound?
Okay now, release the pedals and try this. Engage your mystery lever and pick strings 5, 6 and 8. Now release the lever. Sound familiar?
What that lever does is move between the 2nd and 3rd interval of a major chord, just like the A pedal does in the pedals down position.
Another trick for your mystery lever: pick strings 4, 5 and 6. Now hit that lever and the lever that lowers your E strings (4 and 8) at the same time. This is the classic I-V change.
Now, think about this. You're at the 8th fret on some combination of strings 4, 5, 6, 8 and/or 10. It's a C chord. If you stomp A+B, it changes UP to an F chord. If you hit the 2 knee levers (E lower + G# double lower), it changes DOWN to a G chord.
C - no pedals
F - two raise pedals
G - two lower levers
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 12 Dec 2007 9:18 pm
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Thank you B0B,
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 5:33 am
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Thanks b0b! I have that lever and only ever used it on Jeff Newman's tab of "Look At Us". Forum friend Carl Dixon did expain that knee "squeeze" position to me also. I liked it but had forgotten about using it.
Now, that lever also raises my 1st string... I believe a whole tone. What do we get with that? I think this lever is a Buddy Emmons standard setup, or something Buddy used at one time.
_________________
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 5:49 am
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| Me thinks JD Maness has that 7th string lower. I seem to recall it appearing in the copedant explained in the tab book accompanying his "Get Inside" video. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 7:02 am Re: stoopid question time
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| RC Antolina wrote: |
| My question is... what can I do with it? I mean like, someone thought it as a good idea. |
This change--6 G# lower--is so important to me that I have it on P1 (P2 and P3 Day-style). With the hi E lower on LKL, I can make the change from the V chord to I in two steps--suspending the 2nd or 7th as I desire.
As a beginner, it occurred to me that I and IV were right there and all that was lacking was a V.
Perhaps it takes a beginner's mind, but b0b has a good grasp on its use.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
Last edited by Charlie McDonald on 13 Dec 2007 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 11:04 am
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| It's the "Amen" change. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 11:11 am
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| Quote: |
| Me thinks JD Maness has that 7th string lower. I seem to recall it appearing in the copedant explained in the tab book accompanying his "Get Inside" video. |
I'm pretty sure he does have that change. BTW some of that tab from the get inside video is wrong. Jaydee said he didnt use tab (I think he also said he didnt even know how to read it) so I'm guessing someone else made the tab for him and in doing so they occasionally were off by a string. I dont have it in front of me or I'd be more specific as to where exactly. Maybe you've already discovered this yourself. |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 11:56 am
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| Jay Dee may have that change on his MSA, but on his P/P Emmons he doesn't lower the 6th string. He raises the 7th string, along with the 1st, a whole tone from F# to G#. He does this on RKR, which also moves the 3rd string C to B on the C6. I believe when it picks up the C6 change he can feel the half way point for a G on the E9 changes. On a P/P this gives you a very similar change without having to leave a lot of space at the top of the B pedal (although I guess that never bothered Buddy Emmons). |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 2:56 pm
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I'm probably wrong about this, but it seems to me that there is very little that can be done by lowering the 6th string, that can't also be done by moving the bar back 2 frets and and raising the 5th and sometimes the 4th, either with the C pedal or the E-F knee lever.
Never having had the change, I don't really know what I'm missing, but theoretically at least, it seems that all it does is make it easier to get certain chord and sounds, rather than provide any new ones.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 4:36 pm
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| I have that lever on my MSA Classic and it lowers my 6th string but it raises my 1st string from Gb to G and that is the change that is important to me. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2007 4:50 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| I'm probably wrong about this, but it seems to me that there is very little that can be done by lowering the 6th string, that can't also be done by moving the bar back 2 frets and and raising the 5th and sometimes the 4th, either with the C pedal or the E-F knee lever. |
The difference is that the 5th string stays rock steady. It takes a lot of practice to squeeze the 1st or 3rd pedal in sync with moving the bar back 2 frets. The knee lever makes it easy.
I don't have that lever, but I've played guitars that do. It's pretty slick.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 2:24 pm
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Just sitting here reading this thread, and got thinking of just how many G cords can be found just on the 8th fret alone.
The answer! "A lot".. No pedals or knees, or simply by lowering the E's to E flat, on the 8th fret, gives two more "B" notes, for a total of 3, counting the 2nd string.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 2:42 pm
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Yes, that's true. The difference is between moving tones as the notes ring and changing grips. Sliding into the D note on the 6th string with a knee lever is a familiar sound. You hear it a lot on Buddy Emmons' records.
_________________
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 3:21 pm
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Bob, my steel's still down, so if you would, try grabbing the 4,5,7,,,, 4,7,10,,,, 5,7,8,,,, 7,8,10,,, strings as you lower the E's 1/2 a tone.
See what that gives for the sound changes.. Going from the C, f, and then into the above of the "G" changes. It might be interesting.
Realizing that you'd be coming off of the AB pedals at the same time, grabing these strings with the knee lever engaging, and although it's not the same, it should come off nicely.
I really can't see myself having a knee that drops the 6th string a whole tone, when the 1st & 7th are already a whole tone lower.
I'll have to check it out after I get the old girl back together.. Who knows... Can older people really change their ways? I guess if needed..... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 3:35 pm
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It's the same notes as what you'd get with the knee lever. The difference is that the lever gives you a moving tone on the 6th string, where you would have to block the chord and change grips to include the 7th string instead.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 4:25 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Never having had the change, I don't really know what I'm missing, but theoretically at least, it seems that all it does is make it easier to get certain chord and sounds, rather than provide any new ones. |
I don't think anyone's missing anything without this change. It's a sonic reason with me; the F#, B, E triad with the F# resolving upward is a signature sound of pedal steel for me.
The first time I was aware of it was on the title track of 'Court and Spark.' Larry Carlton (Robben Ford?), faking it I suppose, but getting that sound.
In theory, I eliminated the C pedal and replaced the lost E raise with a G# lower, just in a different voicing. Either you want that sound or you don't.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 8:32 pm
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| Charlie, I think that's what keeps the pedal steel, and it's players, enthused. Simply because it's a machine, that has so many variations to it's sound, and expressions, it's a never ending experience that's all good.... Don |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2007 10:33 pm
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Most people have a D# note available on their 2nd string, but still value the ability to bend into that note with the lower lever on the 4th string.* This change is like that.
*Of course, then there's Lloyd Green... |
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