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Topic: Opinions On Original Sho~Bud Castings And Hardware |
John Coop
From:
YORKTOWN, IND. USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 5:22 pm |
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This will probably stir the stink pile...but ask me if I care  In my 31 years of Sho~Bud experience...I have never seen such inconsisity in parts or bodies !!!!!!!!!!!  Coop |
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Duane Becker
From:
Elk,Wa 99009 USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 5:43 pm
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| I've played ShoBud pedal steels professionally for many years, and I've had from time to time some of the pot metal undercarriage parts break. I think over the course of my playing for 40 years, day in and day out, that I can remember 5 or 6 times when a part has broken. Early on, I would take the part to a machine shop and have it re welded or a new part made. These days I'd buy from Mr. Coop or someone who has an extra part or two. Personally, I have no problem in playing those old ShoBuds with pot metal. I really havent had that much problem with the pot metal in the past. |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 7:21 pm
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Yea, but this is what gives Sho-Bud that wonderful "Funky Factor!" I have (in my collection) a '48 Ford pickup and a '46 Ford half ton truck, do I think they are great trucks? Are you kidding! NO! But there is a wonderful ole' funky factor that I love about them, Sho-Buds also have this quality. I also collect Sho-Bud Permenants.
Bobbe |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 3 Dec 2007 9:37 pm
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| Yes. |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 3:37 am
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It's simply another case of musicians trying to be machinists. That's how this stuff happens. Re: machine work, tolerances are EVERYTHING. They're not just a good idea, they're the LAW!!!
PRR |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 5:07 am
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Inconsistent...... Yes!
Pitted castings......Sometimes
Fragile parts......Sometimes
Mis-aligned parts......Yes
Inferior metal material......Sometimes
Beautiful tone? Almost always!!
Quirky they may be, but you can never accuse ShoBuds as lacking in character. Its great that retro parts are available if wanted in much higher quality these days. For me the most important question is.....do modern, close tolerant engineered steels sound better than ShoBuds. I don't think so.  |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 5:37 am
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It seems to me that if you don't change your own oil the a "Bud" is not the PSG for you. 
_________________
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 6:29 am
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We should take a poll and see which one of us holds the record for the longest flight path for a pot metal knee lever when it flies off the guitar.
Sho-Buds have character right down to their ultra stylish logo! They did a few things wrong but a whole lot of things right.
Greg |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 6:47 am
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Old Shobuds are quite interesting to me. They are fun to "trick out" like rebuilding a '57 chevy. I like Edlebrock parts--uhh-er-I mean John Coop parts. 
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 9:03 am
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James M., exactly, Ken B., very well put, Greg C., I truly agree with you, if tolorance's are what you want in a steel guitar, play a M--, or Si---- or whatever, but if tone and feel are important, it's Sho-Bud, and funky ole' Emmons. If you want and need both, buy an old MCI.
I love Sho-Buds just the way they are, (were) GREAT hot rod material, '55 Chevy, '32 Ford, '65 Mustang. ever notice that guitars that are a little sloppy in tolorances sound better than perfect guitars? Look around, pretty funny huh? (this last statement was quoted to me by Tom Morrell in 1967)
I'm not saying any of this to argue or start trouble, just making observations.
Bobbe |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 9:08 am
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James Moorehead, you should be ashamed for makeing that old Sho-Bud look so incredible! It really looks great. Yes, I'll admit, I wish you had been working there in those years, show us the top?
Let me know if you ever need a job!
Bobbe |
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Art Beard
From:
Once upon a time out west (deceased)
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 9:10 am
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Beautiful James, simply beautiful!! Here is pic of Ray Walker/Jack Palmer redo of a Sho-bud. Art
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 10:52 am
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A Lot of pedal steel players and other musicians got fed putting them together.
John, I really like what you've been doing on the remanning of the fingers etc.
You've saved a lot of guitars that'll last a LONG time.
Duane Marrs similarly.
I know the rows of screws sunk into the front apron could never add to the stabilty of the wood, and the posted Walker/Palmer pic shows like what Duane does to his a good way to adress the problem. I've seen a few that split, and it seemed to be caused by the rows of screws, birdseye or not.
The ONLY think I wonder about with your bearing sets is if there is a tiny bit more slop in them when used for the fingers which could cause inconsistencies that a near perfect fit brass insert bearing might not do. Bearing races work the best when the bearings have more than a full revolution to turn, or they might wear grooves in the races. Just a thought, and certainly not a critique. I just don't know.
Another little think I've found to keep collars and clamps secure is green loctite. NOT on the threads, but on the collars etc.
Anyhow, more power to you, and everybody that spends time getting these old beauties in, or back in shape.
I LOVE my Marrs Retrofit.
I'm sure it will outlast me.
My PIII lasted 25 years + and about three thousand gigs.
It just needs a couple fingers, and it'll rock some more, but I'm probably gonna do more to it.
Hopefully with some of your parts.
Thanks for all you guys do.
EJL |
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John Coop
From:
YORKTOWN, IND. USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 1:36 pm
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| I would rather have the hardware off of an old Multicord !!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 2:10 pm
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Very good John. A very accurate observation. Kudos to you for supplying these much needed parts to the steel community. They are sorely needed. Makes you scratch your head. Doesn't it?
Last edited by Kevin Hatton on 4 Dec 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 2:23 pm
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| BobbeSeymour wrote: |
James Moorehead, you should be ashamed for makeing that old Sho-Bud look so incredible! It really looks great. Yes, I'll admit, I wish you had been working there in those years, show us the top?
Let me know if you ever need a job!
Bobbe |
Thanx for the kind words Bobbe! I might have to take you up on that someday. Some times I get in over my head a little, though.
This bottom one is a refurb I'm doing for my buddy, Chris Ledrew. Purty, ain't it, Chris? I'll put a Pro I decal on it and dress it up a little for ya--no extra charge, ok? 
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 2:48 pm
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James, I see you're really going beyond the call of duty! Wow, I'm astounded by the birds-eye maple, especially on the pedals and legs. And six pedals? Cool! I used to want a round front body, but this one has me converted. I didn't realize Coop made a six-string changer. Don't run off to Nashville with Bobbe before finishing it up for me. Thanks, my friend!
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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John Coop
From:
YORKTOWN, IND. USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 3:04 pm Making " Silk Purses Out Of Sals Ears "
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Here is what I am sent and this is what they get back. If you find 2 of these that match...I'll kiss your backside!!!!!!!!!!!! Coop
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 3:07 pm
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Awe Chris, What a sharp eye you have, I thought you'd recognise those Super Fingers!! Oh yeah, you did say something about "roundfront" didn't you. No problem, I still have a little chainsaw gas left over. I'll round it over for you in a jiffy!!
Bobbe, I'm ready to pack and move, when do I start? |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 3:14 pm Re: Making " Silk Purses Out Of Sals Ears "
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| JOHN COOP wrote: |
Here is what I am sent and this is what they get back. If you find 2 of these that match...I'll kiss your backside!!!!!!!!!!!! Coop
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Hey John, Those are definately genuine "Double Whether Parts". They are as consistant as the weather and the big question is whether or not you can get them to work!! |
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John Coop
From:
YORKTOWN, IND. USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 3:38 pm
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| It's ok boys...you can say things like "junk and crap" !!! Coop |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 5:05 pm Not good.........
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| Quote: |
| Opinions On Original Sho~Bud Castings And Hardware |
Garbage sandcast................ |
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John Coop
From:
YORKTOWN, IND. USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2007 10:34 pm
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| TTT |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2007 1:33 am
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Unbelievable how they left the factory sometimes with such inferior parts but they sho do sound sweet though.
Coop, your torturing me with those undercarriage photos of your parts. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 5 Dec 2007 5:44 am
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| JOHN COOP wrote: |
| It's ok boys...you can say things like "junk and crap" !!! Coop |
Don't beat about the bush - why don't you say what you mean John.  You and a few others are the main beneficiaries of those owners who wish to become fully paid up members of the 'shiny club'. I may well join them one day.
You have to put into perspective the era that these guitars were made in. The Super Pro 2 model excluded, the use of inferior metal materials and inconsistent manufacturing processes is truely indefensible (but understandable) at a time when ShoBud were trying to maximise output and minimise costs with little or no major long term investment in facilities or manufacturing equipment. A number of very good people who worked for ShoBud left the company taking some great but unused ideas with them. Whether by accident or design, ShoBud (and Emmons) guitars are still benchmarked for the epitome of standard of tone, very much like Fender and Gibson are in the 6 string world.
Mechanically, they cannot start to be compared with modern guitars. Manufacturing technology has moved on and buyers of new instruments are now far more conscious and aware about the construction of moving parts in steel guitars than they ever were. The old criteria was "how does it sound, does it hold its tuning, and how many levers and pedals does it have". Certainly not "do you use bearings in the changer fingers etc". Some of the modern guitars are incredibly well made, and the undercarriages are works of engineering art.
You pay your money and take your choice. If you choose older or vintage, then you know (or should do) the weak points as well as the strong points. That's why the Coop's, the Bobbe's, the Marrs' (God willing) and others will always have people waving a bunch of money at them to refurbish the mechanical side of their Buds. |
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