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Topic: Sho Bud...WTF? |
Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 1:14 am |
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.....So, I'm playing the Pro II I recently purchased and I notice detuning of all 10 strings on my C-neck when pressing the 8th pedal.....At first I thought it was some sort of weird cabinet drop......but it didn't take log to figure out that the entire low end of the C6th changer moved when depressing pedals 7 or 8.
On close inspection one can see that the galvanized mounting bracket does not line up with the mounting posts (screws) that secure the changer on the low end. So the low end of the changer gets torqued forward causing all strings to detune.....I tried loosening the mounting screws and nudging the changer plate, but it won't slide over to allow the mounting screw to fit into the lower groove of the plate.
I tightened things down to stop the detuning but it's just hangin' in by a thread.
Check it out (pix).....any ideas? ...do I need new bigger plate?......(a washer between the screw head an mounting plate will not really secure the changer aginst the forward pulling force of the bellcrank/pullrod couple)
E9th changer too...... |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 1:51 am
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| Where's Ricky Davis when you need him? |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 7:57 am
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How about taking some flat-stock cutting it to length longer than the plate is wide. Drill holes in the proper places to fit the side-plate screws. Drill two more holes into the stock and the existing plate. Slide the stock under the springs, and bolt it all together. Is the changer itself sitting centered in the endplate cut-out?
Every Shobud is unique unto itself! No two are really exactly alike. If you take parts off one guitar, the may not fit on the very next guitar of the same model that Shobud made. I actually wonder, could those maybe not be the original plates? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:03 am
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| Lookin' towards the changer from the keyhead end of the underside, does everything look square? Vertical? Parallel? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:16 am
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| All my Shobuds are a lot older than yours, so I can't go stick my head under one and compare. Are those side-plates fastened to any other parts of the changer? If not, how about putting a shim under it, against where it screws to the body to cant it in a bit. Can't do that on any of mine, so I'm shootin' in total darkness, and this may be a really stoopid suggestion! |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:23 am
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| The easiest thing to do- besides getting/making a new plate, would be to remove it- braze a small piece on the side that is too short (the springs seem to line up fine the way it is)- drill out a hole for the mounting screw- and replace it. |
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Jeff Surratt
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:59 am
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| Tony, You might try taking off the return springs then loosening the mounting screws that hold the plate and fudge a little, over to that side. Another thing would be to enlongate the the saddle block mounting holes and sliding it over. There is a lot of pressure on that plate, so you should try to get the screw somewhat under it. I have a plate I will be happy to send you, if you need one. The screws they used were 8/32 and you can use a washer or an oversized nut, like a 10/32 to hold the plate more securely. This may require a slightly longer screw though. Please give me a call if I can help. Jeff |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 10:12 am
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| I agree with Michael Douchette call John Coop or somebody. The plate didn't shrink, it looks like part of it broke off or something underneath the plate has moved. It appears you have more problems than the plate. |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 10:15 am
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Tony, that plate does not look like it was ever the right width. There is really not enough room to split the difference in lining up the two screw holes, without one side slipping out. I would go ahead and make another one out of flat stock. A little trouble, I know, but at least you will be fixing it one time, as opposed to rigging it up every session.
A hassle no doubt, but go ahead and cut another one out and be done. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 10:35 am
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JMHO but I don't recollect anything being galvanized under them though the way they were set up was hokey. just a flat piece with holes in it. They bent.
What you've got is homemade, to replace the little weaker piece(s).
I'd get with Harley, and go down to Parkrose Hdw, and get a piece of 1/8" 3/4"angle. at most. Drill holes in it and hang the springs. Forget the slotted plate thing.
Loctite Green before you screw it down on the angle surfaces ONLY, and you're outa there.
Some of them had individual screws for "spring tension" but they were BS.
They never had plates running under the springs. It would make them hard to clean, and string ends, motel keys, and roaches etc would collect under them. Also a slot that could catch the fingers.
If the E9 works, I'd leave it, but I'd make 2 of them.
Give me a call at 209-9012, cause I need your number anyhow. I'm recording at my lawyer's place today, and most of the evening, but I'd be glad to look at it.
YF & OS
EJL/HFLE |
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Nic du Toit
From:
Milnerton, Cape, South Africa
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 11:26 am
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Maybe this could work?
(I do not have a Sho-Bud)
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 11:30 am
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| Take Jeff Surratt's advice and do it correctly. He either has or can make you a correct plate very easily. No need to jury rig. Its a relativly easy fix if you have the corrct plate. I would call Jeff. He is a master Sho-Bud mechanic. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 12:42 pm
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Again. There is no "Correct plate". My PIII which is of similar design had a thinner piece of angle with holes in it. It could have been thicker, but it worked for thirty years, and still is.
My Professional had a similar one.
My Marrs Retrofit has a piece of angle. No homemade "plate". No slots for the finger actuating levers.
The Galvanized Plates look like they came from a barn somewhere. I'm sure they did, and especially the C6. Somebody mismeasured it obviously. Use the old one for a pattern to drill new holes for the springs in a piece of angle, make it longer on the belly side. No "slotting" needed. No "plate" covering up the action.
Somebody jump in here if I'm wrong.
I'm sure Jeff would indeed send you what you need, but it's a pretty simple part to make. The important part is to have the spring holes the same distance from the front attachment to the finger levers.
Get or make two of them while you're at it and replace the other Gerry Rigged water trough piece while you're at it. You don't want to get a negative galvanic reaction going. God knows what karma it could draw..
Remember, most of the people over they years that put these beautiful things together were living in their cars, and probably hung over.. I think Jimmy Day did the welding on my original Professional, and Lloyd Green might have sprayed the freckled sound damping paint job underneath.
Years later, he kindly signed it when Duane straightened it all out.
EJL |
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Ron !
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 1:35 pm
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Kevin,
take Jeff's advice and give the man a call.He handled more "Bud's" then either one of us can swing a stick at.He knows what he's talking about.
Trying to fix this problem "Rinkydink" might do more wrong then good IMO.
Just my 2 cents.
Ron |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 2:51 pm
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| Hmmm! I wonder if during a rebuild or cleaning, maybe someone mixed up the side-plates, and assembled the guitar incorrectly. May one of the E9th plates is on the C6th, and vice-versa. Shobud often didn't make right- and left hand side parts. You'd look at them and swear you had to right-side parts, but no! One of the right-side parts was for the right side, the other right-side part was for the left side. Economy. I'm thinkin' that may have happened to this guitar! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:02 pm
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Just for reference, my 12 string Pro 1.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:06 pm
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Thanks Jon. It's an original part, not some scabbed-up piece of a barn! Makes me even surer that the guitar was disassembled, parts mixed up, and reassembled.
Me? I'd take it apart, and put it back together right! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:23 pm
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I don't know squat but is there a reason why you can't just remove the two screws and reposition the part and screw it back in? I think that this is what Nic is suggesting except instead of trying to finesse it, just making two new holes?
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:31 pm
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| You could do that Jon, but you'd have to drill and dowel the holes as they'd probably be too close together. I don't know if those two parts are fastened to anything else. But if they're not, I'd take the springs off both changers, remove those parts that I've been callin' sideplates, and mix and match until you find the right pairs. Then there would be no need to drill any new holes. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:36 pm
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I see--you are suspecting that they were all removed and then 'grab-bagged' during reassembly. Plausible.
And I agree that with my suggestion the new holes would be awfully close to the old ones. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 3:45 pm
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| Eggs Ackley Jon! When I was rebuilding my 67 "Pre-Pro" a screwhole stripped out in one of the changer sideplates. I call them side plates because on my old guitar they performed the same function as on Tony's guitar, but they also went thru the top of the guitar and became what we now call pillow blocks. Anyway, I called Coop and he said he'd send me the part. He sent me 8 of them! Why? Cuz they were all the same, but different. I had to choose the one that best fit. I thought John had sent me 8 righthand sideplates, but upon further examination, I realized the same part was used on the left and the right sides of the changer. A lot of people don't seem to understand that Shobuds were not cookie cutter guitars. Each one is an individual. All parts were fit by hand for that one guitar. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 4:32 pm
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Bad to worse......the C neck changer popped off of the saddle mount screw again....this time sending springs akimbo.......I loosened the strings, and reattached the changer assembly but now, two of the changer fingers are stuck and won't return back to neutral. So now, no C-neck function at all.
I did speak to the guy who sold the guitar to me. He's seems to be very honorable and is willing to return my $$.....Initially I was hoping to solve the problem, but I think I'm beginning to sour on this particular instrument.....It's too bad because I love the sound of this Bud.
[N.B.] note the "red-X" marked on the galvanized "rain-gutter" plates (under the middle springs)......It makes me think these were poorly made parts, initially earmarked for the throw-away bin, but used anyway. |
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