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Topic: Raise the 5th string another 1/2 note |
Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 7:26 am |
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Hi, I have a question. On the E9 setup, When I am in the dominant key on the 7th fret, with both pedals down, what is the easiest way to get the fifth string to raise another 1/2 step, without cocking the bar? I'm new here at a lot of tech stuff, but I can do anything mechanical if I have to. This is on my LDG.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:01 am
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These are three options without any additional pedal changes:
| Tab: |
1----------------------------
2----------------------------
3----------------------------
4-----------7~~~~8L----------
5-----------7A~~~8A----------
6-----------7B~~~8-----------
7-----------------------------
8-----------------------------
9-----------------------------
10-----------------------------
1-------------------------------
2-----------------------7L------
3-------------------------------
4-----------7-----------7-------
5-----------7A------------------
6-----------7B----------7B------
7-------------------------------
8-------------------------------
9-------------------------------
10-------------------------------
1---------------------------
2---------------------------
3---------------------------
4---------------------------
5-------12~~~12------------
6-------12~~~12B----------
7---------------------------
8-------12~~~12------------
9---------------------------
10--------------------------- |
As to changes, there are several problems. First, it depends on which version of the LDG you have. If you have only double raise then both raises are tied up with A & C pedals. If it single raise with barrels then the 'infinite raise' options are there but I don't know anything about that.
Next problem is--what lever would you put it on? In my mind it would conflict with the standard lever setup functions---can't put it on the F lever for obvious reasons. It would wreck the best uses of the E lever. Same with the D lever, G lever, X....Seems to me it would need to be a dedicated lever. So you really have to be convinced that you need it and don't intend to use the standard changes (or you need to add a lever). Which is all fine---but I'm not clear----are you a beginner? I suggest that if you are and don't yet understand the common uses of the common changes, maybe give it some more thought. You would be choosing to lose some very useful standard changes. If you have strong understanding of the fundamentals of the basic E9 setup and are not interested in it, hey, go for it.
<HR><HR><HR><HR>
edited: added in attempt to clarify------most of the levers on E9 work in combination with an open 5th string or a 5th string raised one whole step. What you propose will alter this (unless you have a dedicated lever) and render some very useful changes, positions, inversions, etc, nonfunctional. |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:31 am
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I do this with my V lever.It is a nice effect but not easy to set up.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 8:39 am
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Thank you for your input. I have had this steel for about 30 years, but never got into it much. Lloyd sold me on his model when he was doing a recording session with me in Nashville. So I bought it new, and now being retired I have time to really get into it. I do understand music, and I'm working at refining my playing. I'd consider myself as a advanced begiiner, can play most slower songs with boo boo's.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 2:35 pm
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| Ronnie--as to the question, simply, of mechanical viability---like I said, there were different undercarriages on LDG's over the years they were made and identifying which one you have necessary in order to consider what can or can't be done. If you have a triple-raise changer or if you have a single raise with barrels then you could add that vertical lever and do it the way Bill does. But I'm getting beyond my know-how here. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Nov 2007 11:10 pm
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Curious that you should raise the thought now, but; believe it or not, Hal Rugg actually had this change of 1½-tones on string #5 for a while for experimentation, but; eventually decided that it did not suit his purposes for one reason or another and he finally eliminated the change. Unfortunately I don't remember for sure how he did it, but; I think he had it on the pedal next to his (C)-pedal.
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2007 7:22 am
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Thanks again for the ideas. really like them.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 25 Nov 2007 9:26 am
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For CHORDS --
If all you need is the 4th scale tone of the IV chord (think key of E -- the IV chord is A and you want to move the C# up to D for a sus4) Jon's pretty well summed it up.
If you want to know how to get the D (open position) 'in place' -- that is, the open position -- E with no bar -- my favorite way would be lowering the 2nd string. A+B then add the 2nd lowered to D. (I actually tune my 2nd to D)
As mentioned, Jimmy Day and others (I hadn't recalled Rugg having that change) actually raised 5 from B to D. Seems I remember Day having it on a vertical on one of his Buds -- I'll bet Ricky D would remember. It's a cool change, but kind of a 'one trick pony'. Just gives you the B pedal functionality (3rd scale tone goes to 4) out of the A+B position ON THE SAME STRING.
On a different tack, for SINGLE NOTES get used to being able to quickly pull the nose of the bar up 1 fret to get that note. It is an important scale tone -- the b7 in the no pedals position -- and the 4th in the A+B position. For uptempo stuff it's often easier to get that note on the 5th string with the A pedal one fret higher than it is reaching for the 2nd string.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2007 8:20 pm
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I also put a 4th raise on my RLR(via Mooney)instead of useing the C pedal. It can be used in several combinations.
A&B Pedals A or B, A&B with the 5th raise or even with the A pedal F lever. you can keep your C pedal if disired but will have to do some modifications. I am doing some experimenting trying to have both hooked up.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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