Question about guitar cords

Mitch Ellis · From: Collins, Mississippi USA

Lets say I'm using a 1/4 inch cord from my steel down to the volume petal. If I change to a 1/8 cord, will the signal from the pick-up be restrained, thus making it necessary to push the volume petal down further? I know that if I try to run my air compressor using a 150ft. extention cord, the motor runs slow. If I use a 100ft. or less, it runs fine. Does the same principal or concept apply to guitar cords. Thank you.
Mitch

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Electronics is different, "bigger isn't better". It has to do with the electronic qualites (specs) of the cble. And, price of cable is no indication of how good or bad it is.

I along with many on the forum use the small diameter George L's cable. Electronic qualities are great on this cable, such as the low capacitance per foot (either 24 or 26pf per foot - I don't remember). It also has superior shielding (braid) and has static electicity control (minimized). It also uses a metal plug, which is needed to maintain shielding of the signal (molded plastic plugs or ones with a bakelite or plastic cover are very poor as they do not shield at the plug area).

Some of the high priced "designer" cables do not list their electronics specs which makes me wonder about their claims of how great their cable is.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Speaking of cords, has anyone tried the Core One products. They are quite similiar to George L's.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I use George L cables also and find them to be a great product. I believe George L came out with a "brass plug" for these cables and wonder if there are any benefits to this type plug?

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

There would be no sonic difference, just a different look. they also make a gold-plated type; gold is a better conductor but I would only use them for a wired pedalboard, as the plating will eventually wear.

But the nickel (or chrome) type is probably brass as well, just plated; and that type of plating wears very slowly. Brass is used for things like that (same as on camera parts) because it's much easier to machine small brass parts than small steel ones.

As car as the cable goes, size is pretty irrelevant with input cords (however, it can make a huge difference in speaker cables, and TYPE of cord is important there as well) - although I can't figure out what the 1/8" cord is Mitch is talking about. Mitch, are you using a cord with a mini-pin on it, and if so - why?
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Mitch Ellis · From: Collins, Mississippi USA

Jim,
I'm sorry, but what is a mini-pin? Very Happy

The 1/8 cord is the George L. Imagine cutting the end, and then measuring across the cut surface. It appeared to be 1/8th to me. The 1/4th is a peavey cord. The reason I used the measurments instead of the brand name is because I didn't want the brand name to influence the answers. I use the George L from the steel to the volume petal. From the volume petal, to the delay petal, to the amp, I use the Peavey. Going from the steel to the volume petal, my tone seems a little brighter and cleaner with the George L than when I use the peavey cord. Why is this? Thank you.
Mitch

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I think (there I go thinking again) Oh Well

that it would take a very long cord to have enough capacitance to change the tone. I tried several different cords which were in the 20 ft range, of different diameters. Couldn't say that I could detect any change. I believe that capacitance between the center conductor and the shield, with a certain diameter, could only be altered by the diameter of the center conductor IE; smaller diameter, less surface area as a capacitor. I wondered how the George L cables were made, with their claim for better sound etc (?) Many say they the best.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Length does eat up signal minimally. I never worried about it in the 1-20 foot range.

1/8" "L" type cords have less braided sheathing area, and pick up less RF static.

I've at least tested them to my satisfaction. And used them in all kinds of clubs that had everything from deep fryers, rheostats, and neon light blinkings switches, etc on the lines.

That's all you can do.

Get to a controlled environment like a studio, nail your volumes, and do your tests.

Advertizing is misleading.

If it weren't. Monster™ Cables wouldn't suck..

EJL

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

OK, now I understand.

The diameter of the cord including the insulation means exactly zero. Some have very thick insulation, like braided cloth; others very thin like the lighter George L type. But the wire inside can be the same - diameter is irrelevant to wire size...and wire size in guitar crds is irrelevant as well.

However, there IS a difference in sound between guitar cords, which has been proven in blind testing by Guitar Player magazine among others, sing standard lengths for comparison (I don't recall what length, but use 15' as an example). Lower-capacitance cords like George L pass more highs and tend to have more "presence". Interestingly, in one test George L came out at the top, followed by a cheap Carvin cable. Some of the expensive, highly-marketed brands (especially one that starts with an "M") were shown to be less than desirable as far as bang-for the buck if you are interested in good tone.

In this case, I think it's fairly obvious the Peavey cable, if measured, would show a significantly higher capacitance reading than the George L.

But again - forget the size thing altogether.

Oh - and when you said "1/8" I thought you were trying to describe the plug (metal) end - not the cable itself, since standard guitar plugs are known as "1/4" phone plugs".
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The electrical characteristics of guitar cords, even at lengths under 20 ft DO make a difference. I was using Belden 8412 (if I remember correctly) for my guitar cords for a long time and thought since it was Belden and designed for high impedence musical instrument cable that it was "great". Was I surprised when I got some George L's and tried them. It was no contest, much better frequency response across the entire spectrum and no attenuation of the highs - I had to lower the settings on the Treble and Presence controls on my Session 500 that I was using at the time from plus 4 or 5 to plus 1 (with a 71 (Black) Very Happy

PP Emmons D-10).

Alan Kirk · From: Scotia, CA, USA

George L cable works for steel, because steelers don't move around. However, if you use one for guitar and you move more than a step this way or that or, god forbid, you turn around in a circle, George L cable sucks. I don't care how great they supposedly sound. They coil up and trip people and are a total pain in the butt. IMHO they are unsafe and unfriendly to use for anything other than a semi-permanent setup like steel.
_________________
Everyone in the world has two jobs: 1) whatever they do for a living; and 2) music critic.

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I never heard a difference in sound, must be my ears.... I know a guitarist who changes cables for particular songs. Freak to me Smile

JJ

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I believe monster cable makes a line of specific cables for bass guitar, jazz guitar, etc. There is also an arrow on one end of the cable indicating the signal flow and what end to plug in to the guitar.

I bought the jazz guitar cable for my Byrdland and guess what? I can't tell the sound difference between that cable and any other good cable. I should have taken $40.00 and threw it out the window. Sad

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Different cables sound different, sometimes VERY different. But the "reasons" people give for it (capacitance, etc) are usually nonsense. Honestly, there are simply too many variables for us to really understand. Trust your ears, ignore the hype.

I like George L cables for sound and durability, and they're readily available, cheap, and can be customized at home. Use 'em for pedalboard wiring and board-amp. But they really suck as regular guitar cords due to their inflexibility. I'm sure an all George L setup would be find for pedal steel, though.

The things I pay most attention to with cable are durability and microphonics, to be honest. Tap the cable and see if you can hear it through the amp - you often can (and this doesn't take "golden ears"). And a cable that fails onstage sounds worse than ANY other cable, right?

Oh, and "directional" cable really is directional! What that means is that it has a braided RF shield, which should only be grounded at ONE end, not both. Which end is grounded matters. Follow manufacturer recommendations. "Directional" cables are one of the things the naysayers like to hold up as snake oil, but it makes perfect sense if you stop naysaying long enough to find out why.
_________________
I don’t believe in pixie dust, but I believe in magic.

1967 ZB D-10
1990 OMI Dobro
Recording King lap steel with Certano benders

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I like threads where opinons can be recognized as just that, and hype is thrown out post haste..

I wouldn't know a 'henry' or a "ferrad" if one came up and bit me in the ass.

In 81 or so I got this funny looking brass ended cable. Lawrence something.

It sounded like my other ones, and I was too busy playing to pay any attention.

It started out at about 20 feet, and bit by bit I cut it down as it got older.

Sometimes the gigs were so bad that I'd just grab the cords and jerk them out to GTFO, and leave the ends in the amp, VP or PS. Then I'd have to reatttach them when I got home.

The Lawrences were easier, and the ones I had to solder ended up getting put in the box of stuff that either might work, or the box of stuff that didn't.

I was going thru my cords one day and culling them, when I found my 2 foot lawrence, and realized that I'd had it for 20 years. I threw everything else out and bought a 50 feet of 1/8" and a dozen ends.

I only looked back once.

We were in a home studio where a guy had an AC next to the studio which had to be turned off or the RF flooded everything.

We found that my cheap looking cords were the ones that picked up the least, and I went on to read somewhere that the larger braided "ground sheathing" in 1/4" cord was like an antenna for rf. Made sense to me.

I like them because when there's a doubt in a cord, I can cut it and fix it in a minute, dab some fingernail polish on the screws and be done with it for another year or two.

Smile

EJL

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Save your money, buy the Carvin cords. I've used them for years. JP
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Carter,PV,Fender

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

All this is quite interesting. In-service testing, expreience, and evaluating seems to over-ride all the hype about cords in general.

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

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