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Topic: How simple can you play live? |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 9:44 am |
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Is it all about the steel, and the number of notes you can jam into every backup and break from 9 til closing time?
Can you lay back and play pedals up and pedals down at the "1" chord and then shut up and get out of the way until you have the intro or turnaround on the next song?
Steelers in large bands backing big time singers do not have much room to play. So how do you mentally gear yourself up to do nothing, just take the money and run?
This could be a long thread.
Larry Behm |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 9:49 am
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| Quote: |
| So how do you mentally gear yourself up to do nothing..? |
It can take a Lifetime.
EJL |
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Ron !
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 9:57 am
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Hmmmmm......When I was introduced in the Country Scene a long time ago my band leader told me that when it was not my time to play to lower the volume and keep playing.I would know exactly where the chords where.Never did I mis a chord or not know on which fret to begin my solo or fills.
Not only would I be busy but the audience would think that I was playing.It would look dumb and silly that the whole band would be playing except me.I would be sitting there with my arms crossed.A sight for sore eyes huh?
It was the best advice ever givin' to me.
"Playback" on a steel guitar is easy.99% of the audience will think you are playing.It has nothing to do with fooling people but knowing when not to play.Keep this in mind...."Less is More".
| Quote: |
| just take the money and run? |
A steel player is part of a band......IMO there is no such thing as "Taking the Money and run".
If you start doing that you will be without a job in weeks 'cause your fellow band members will boot your behind out of the band.
Take my advice....start to playback during a song.You won't mis a chord.
Ron |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 10:19 am
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The most influential teacher for many of us, the great Jeff Newman, always said...
"Less is more"
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 10:22 am Well Larry................
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| That's a mighty pretty shirt! |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 10:53 am
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The band could economize by not hiring a steel guitarist, grabbing a bum off the street, giving him $5 to sit behind the steel, and not plugging him in. 
| Ray Montee wrote: |
| That's a mighty pretty shirt! |
...and the Skipper could pick out a shirt for him.  |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 11:00 am
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When done right the steel can be an awesome rythm instrument. I've played in bands where the steeler does his part and just quits. the bottom falls out of the music. I think its just as important to learn how to play rythm as leads.
I'll take Alan's shirt.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 1:37 pm
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| Alan, my thoughts exactly. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 2:44 pm
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you could always ask up front..
"Seeing you really don't want me to play all that much , why don't you PAY me now and I won't even show up "!
Kinda like a Farmer getting paid to NOT GROW Beans.
I think in our worlds, if you don't take a fill or lay back too much, the XXXtar player will grab the moment 
I had a whole gig of those moments a few weeks back... I was doing a gig where they were all popular Country tunes, and luck would have it , I knew almost all of them as well as the signature intro's and fills...so I was just kinda playing the songs..the Guitar player didn't know ANY of them so he invented new licks on top of the signature licks I was playing. On one song during the intro I actually yelled at him and told him to shut up ! It was the Alison Krauss tune " When you say Nothing at All" I kicked off the stock intro lines and he was just playing something ..well..not really sure what...but the Gal singer's eyes were popping out in confusion ..so I told him to shut up...stop playing...it took him about 8 bars to realize I meant for him to SHUT UP !
What I was really trying to impress on him was that he should......
SHUT UP ! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 3:21 pm
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Contrary to popular belief...
It's not about the boobs.
It's not about the biceps.
It's not about the buns.
It's not about the navel.
It's not about the bass.
It's not about the drums.
It's not about the guitar.
It's not about the keyboards.
It's not about the lights.
It's not about the sound system.
It's not about the pyrotechnics.
It's not about the clothes.
And it's not about the singer!
It's NOT even about the steelplaying!!!
What is it about?
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It's about the song!!! 
EVERYTHING that's done should help the song.
(That's what we're playing, after all.)
Sometimes I play a lot, and sometimes I play very little. But every time I play...I do what I have to do help the song.
Music is about the song. Everything else (despite egos or production values), is secondary.
Once, while I was playing a session, I put in a loooonnnngggg descending gliss, a quiet fading moan that you barely noticed. When the producer asked me why I did it, I told him "The song was asking for it - begging for it. I heard it in my head, and I just played it like the song wanted".
He left it in.
Really, what we do, it's about the song. |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 3:54 pm
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What Donny said.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 4:18 pm
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hey Donnie .
for me its always about that first one on your list
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 5:48 pm
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Larry,
I can play as simple live as I can sitting in my music room, it just comes natural!
If some one wants more than simple they need to call another steel player.
But the simple, and following the melody has worked pretty good for me so far.
Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY" |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 5:55 pm
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I can be a "busy" player, depending on the song or the stage setup I can also disappear if I have to leaving room for the other lead players. Sometimes it can be a balancing act as the other players bring or do not bring their A game on any given night.
I agree it is all about the song. When I listen to Vince Gill recordings some of those slow songs are so void of background instrumentation it is spooky. I love it, and sometimes I elect not to play very much to support that feeling on a song now and then.
Larry Behm
Ray I have a shirt in your size if you need one for your next gig. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Nov 2007 8:24 pm
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Joan Baez, in her memoirs, related how when turning up for a session she found Chet Atkins was booked to play guitar with her. When the song was over she remarked how she expected all sorts of fantastic guitar work from Chet but all he did was strum the chords, to which Chet responded, "That's all the song needed."
There's wisdom there. |
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Jim Walker
From:
Headland, AL
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 12:30 am
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Donny has a very good answer. Bill Dobkins has another. In the group I'm currently with, it's guitar, bass, drums and steel. I play rythm on the steel every time the guitarist takes a solo. He plays rythm for me when I solo or fill. Not to mention all this while singing harmony. Simple is really all I CAN play. January makes 2 years for me on psg
Who is Joan Baez?
JW
_________________
Show Pro D10, Session 400 |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 1:49 am
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Cross my arms?
I've got a lot to do in the 'rest' time:
Check out the Chicks
Nagging the drummer, singer,
Clean my steel,
dust the effect-rack,
order a beer,
change strings,
lookin for effects in the next song and finding out what the intro was about
and TUNING THE GUITAR
I never fake play, I be there or I am not at all. Most of the evening I'm payed to shut up
JJ |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 3:32 am
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Double post...don't hit "back" if you use Firefox 
Last edited by Jim Phelps on 11 Nov 2007 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 3:35 am
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Donny said it. It's about the song.
I'm far from being a great steel player, but at least this is something I never had a problem with. If anything, I've had some times when I felt like people, especially other steelers listening, expected me to play more "showy". I have put in too much junk in solos... but in background, I have better taste for some reason.
For all the talk about how we should play less etc., I know there are many musicians including steelers who think if you're not dazzling, you're just not too good. I believe there's a place for that kind of playing...steel guitar shows, hot instrumentals.... hot solos in kickin' songs... but not in everything. My idea of tasteful playing might disappoint some who expect more dazzle, but it's what feels right to me, for the SONG, and I'm glad I'm not alone in that. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 3:43 am
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| Hey Alan, I heard that story about Chet too... I sure can't compare to Chet (who can?) but I can top that story, haha.... I went to a session to play guitar and didn't play a single note... told them it didn't need it... ha! Can't play much less than that! |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 7:06 am
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It's about the song!!! Smile
EVERYTHING that's done should help the song.
I agree with Donny,,,trouble is,,,that dumba$$ guitar player believes he IS helping the song!!!! |
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Jerry H. Moore
From:
Newnan, GA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 7:51 am
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Like the song "Elvira" or maybe "Turn the Page"...If the bass vocalist sang the whole song it wouldn't be as good...I think. Or the sax solo in "Turn the page". We wait and savor the moment. Steel players are paid to wear pretty shirts and play the sounds that impress item #1 in Donnie's list. I like Chet's response...to play what's needed....
I'm still new at the steel guitar with about two years experience and have a regular gig at a local bar. We play mostly "Buffet" type music but have a few country and some swing and rock and roll. It's a real challenge at times to find a nice break for some of the songs. But when the singer calls for a steel break, I'm taking a ride!!! Mostly I feel as out of place as a pork chop at a Jewish wedding but I keep getting the call every week.
To answer the question:
| Quote: |
| Can you lay back and play pedals up and pedals down at the "1" chord and then shut up and get out of the way until you have the intro or turnaround on the next song? |
I don't want to be the one that "the band" says plays too loud or too busy. I have always told any band I play with to tell me to turn down or hold back or even turn up (rarely). I played a wedding with some guys and had four old country songs for the whole night!!! Out of boredom I started hitting a few fills on the other tunes and got a few nods. So in the words of a friend of mine...keep it "tasty".
SO..
| Quote: |
| Is it all about the steel, and the number of notes you can jam into every backup and break from 9 till closing time? |
My answer is:Play "all thats needed" and play "tasty" and keep amazing them with pretty shirts!!!!
P.S. If you play pedals up or down at the "1" chord you are able to see more of Donnie's item 1!!! |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 8:03 am
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couldn't you just doodle around with a 1 or 2 note melody at a slighly lower volume , that way you would still be in time with every one and still be busy ...just wondering (as i am no expert on this kinda thing)
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 11 Nov 2007 8:39 am
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actually Calvin, I would never recommend little noodling unless it is in YOUR space to play.
Think of it this way, while you are playing a tasty phrase which includes space and moving tones..and while you are in the OPEN SPACE part of your phrase, someone else adds a few notes...noodling if you will....it will totally change what you are playing..and will really piss you off too !
Space is PART of playing phrases , you work in and out of open space.
IF you are playing out live and it feels like there is a lot going on, it's because there is ! Someone has to step up to the plate and be the real Musician, and lay out....
Bands that have Steel players really require a Guitar player who can anticipate a Steel players fills...or they will be noodling all the time leaving really no SPACE to play the good stuff...
what a life...
Last edited by Tony Prior on 11 Nov 2007 8:43 am; edited 3 times in total |
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