Tuning Emmons Push Pull's

Al Vesel · From: Chisholm, Minnesota, USA

I have always been an all-pull steel player.
But I just recently purchased a nice 70's S-10 Emmons push pull fatback.

I have no idea how to tune this thing. I have tuned all-pulls for years.

When I got this push pull, it was pretty much in tune, except the 8th string for lowering the E's to E flat, I am having all kinds of trouble with that. I talked to a couple of guys about it and I thought I had it resolved. But it screwed up again. Now it is like something is froze up on 8.

At this point I want to send it out to have it set up by someone who knows what they're doing.

I can send it to a guy in Florida, but I hate to pay the freight there and back.

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANYONE CLOSER TO NORTHERN MINNESOTA (OR IN MINNESOTA), THAT CAN TUNE THESE PUSH PULLS CORRECTLY?? Even though it's pretty much in tune except for the 8th string lowering the E's, it still is not quite up to snuff. I would just like someone to give it the once over.

Please let me know or else it will be on its way to Florida.

For what I paid for it ($1,800.00), if I invest too much, if I ever go to sell it, I won't get my money out of it. So that is why I'd like to find someone closer that Florida if possible.

TXS

Al Vesel

alvesel@mchsi.com
phone 218-254-2082
_________________
Emmons LeGrande SKH D-10 - WALKER STEREO STEEL AMP w JBL ENCLOSURES & TC ELECTRONICS M-ONE XL PROCESSOR, HILTON VP,FURMAN POWER CONDITIONER, SARNO's Steel Guitar BLACK BOX,BJS,ToneMaster bars,FENDER Strat, FENDER & Ovation acoustic's

richard burton · From: Britain

Al,
Check that the rod that PUSHES, ie lowers the note, has not come out of its hole in the changer.
This can happen if someone has operated the changer by hand.
In the meantime, have a look at these sketches of how a PP changer works

Pete Macomber · From: San Francisco, California

I'm a pp greenhorn too. My string 8 won't lower enough to touch the screw. Cmon Bobbe, get that video out on DVD!

Paul Warnik · From: Illinois,USA

Al-First of all remember that in tuning a P/P you must tune the raised notes at the tuning keys on the headstock and the open notes at the endplate screw holes-The exception would be the E-F raise on the fourth string in which you have to reach underneath and adjust the half tone tuner screw threaded into the bell crank swivel-Secondly-if the lower on the 8th string is not getting all the way to Eb it is likely that the collar on the 8th string raise rod is getting in the way-you might want to loosten the set screw collar on the raise rod and then with your hand push back on the finger to where it will lower all the way against the stop screw on the endplate-once you have tuned the lower screw at the endplate make sure the knee lever lowering the E's has enough travel to hit the stop screws-while engaging the knee lever lower notice how much slack is taken back of the raise rod-you can reset and tighten the raise rod collar by butting it right up to the bell crank with the raise rod taught and with the lower engaged-now when you release the lower you should have the proper amount of slack in the raise rod-at this point you may have to adjust your E-F knee lever for slightly longer travel to get all the way to F-usually this problem is more associated with the fourth string third pedal (E-F#) raise and knee lever lowering that needs considerable slack between the raise rod collar and bell crank which in turn causes pedal three to need a lengthy amount of travel to take up the slack and reach the full tone raise

robert kramer · From: Nashville TN

Pete, That's easy to fix. Assuming the 4th string lower and the stop for the knee lever are in adjustment: (1)Loosen the collar on the 8th string lower (2) Slide the collar slightly towards the bellcrank and tighten. The 4th string lower and the 8th string lower should now be stopping at the same time. If they aren't, keep adjusting the 8th string lower until they do. When the are in adjustment, make sure they are stopping at the same time the knee lever is hitting the knee lever stop.

Pete Macomber · From: San Francisco, California

Thanks a lot Robert. I'll give it a go. I love the tone and feel of my push pull so much, I can't imagine ever selling it due to mechanical issues. I'll hire a pro for a rebuild at that point.

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

Al it would be a good idea to print all this info.
and record it, but if you forget go to
www.steelguitar.com
( top ) Technical support
steel guitar resources
adjustments
tuning
type 1 all pull
type 2 push-pull
It goes into detail.

Buster Warren · From: Nakina,N.C. USA

First thing is to put on a new set of strings ,and be sure they are the correct gauge ,,,,,,
_________________
Thanks ,Buster,"JAM4FUN"

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

Al,
In my opinion, NO you didn't pay too much for your Emmons, in fact you got a sweetheart of a deal. These Push-pulls are increasing in value everyday. I have three and none of them are for sale. You'll get used to it eventually then you'll never look back. Nick

My 3 P/P's

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Before you move any collars make sure your changer is in tune on that string. Push pulls are not that difficult. Also try this link: http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Al,

Emmons p/p guitars are different from all-pulls in that a small amount of slack is needed to allow the rods to both push and pull the changer fingers. The trick is creating just the right amount of slack by moving the rod-collars very slightly. Once you have adjusted the rod-collars (and pedal stops), it is unlikely you will have to touch the undercarriage again for many years!

Before you spend hundreds of dollars shipping your steel to a guitar mechanic, I'd highly recommend you purchase "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" by Clem Schmitz for the bargain price of $10.

Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take years to figure out. He's got a great trick for adjusting the 4th string that you are having trouble with.

He sells the book on eBay. It is currently listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar P/P Repair Book".
If you can't find it there, you can contact Clem at: freedomsauce@bellsouth.net

Some other sources of info on p/p guitars:
A WILDERNESS GUIDE TO BASIC SETUP OF AN EMMONS PUSH PULL STEEL GUITAR by John Lacey
http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

Carter Guitar
http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/adjustments/tuneitup.html

Dave

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