Horizontal vs. Vertical

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

There are basically two kinds of licks: licks that go across the strings with very little bar movement, and licks that go up and down the neck.

I've heard these referred to as "horizontal" and "vertical". My question is this: which is "horizontal" and which is "vertical"? I could see it either way.

Is there a consensus?

(Of course there are also licks that combine the two, but let's ignore that for the moment.)

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

b0b, I think vertical refers to working on different strings confined to an area close to a certain fret (in a pocket) and horizontal would be utilizing two or three strings moving up or down the fretboard. I see it more as single string patterns but I suppose it could refer to playing multiple strings.
Jerry

Mark Eaton · Posted 20 Oct 2007 1:40 pm

I personally have never used the term myself - but the phrase "up and down the neck" sure sounds vertical to me, as opposed to moving one's bar across the strings, which strikes me as horizontal.

Sidebar: I had a friend visiting recently from out-of-town, a strong guitar player, and he was showing me some stuff, and as he played it at a higher fret number, say 12 or 13, he referred to it as playing it farther down the neck - not the first time I've heard that one - I always refer to the higher frets as playing up the neck, and the lower frets as playing down the neck.
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Mark

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Horizontal - lots of different frets. Licks that go up and down the neck.

Vertical - confined mostly to one fret or a small group of adjacent frets. Across the strings with very little bar movement.

jmo.

Delvin Morgan · From: Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA

Now, aren't you glad you asked, B0b?

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

Perhaps this will help: is there anyone out there playing "over" in Hugheyland?

Colm Chomicky · From: Kansas, (Prairie Village)

Confusing one.

To me, maybe it helps to think of all stringed instruments: guitar, violin, standup bass, etc. I tend to think of going "up and down" the neck. To me "up and down" is a vertical movement. To me, vertical refers to position, not scale which is achieved either horizontally or vertically.

Now staying at one fret or position, is like staying at one elevation. One goes across the strings in a horizontal fashion to attack a scale.

So it is about position on the neck. IMHO

A steel lays relatively flat, as opposed to an upright base so the concept of up and down may be relative to each players preconception of what this means. To quote a former President (who got in trouble with vertical licks), I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is.

Mark Eaton · Posted 20 Oct 2007 4:05 pm

All "vertical licks" aside, Colm, as you indicated, if you are showing something to a friend on a steel guitar, you probably don't say, if playing something on the third fret, "play it over here, to the left," and then when you go to the 15th fret you say "then move your bar to the right, to the 15th fret."

You probably say "move the bar up to the 15th fret.
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Mark

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

i always said higher was up the neck .. vertical
across would be horizontal..
but what about the E levers.. strangely enough, i am most comfortable with my lowers going right (rkr) and the raises going left (rkl)
I am so glad to not be confused.
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Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

As a bass player by trade, I learned "up and down" and "across the strings"', and I think of steel the same way.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Okay, I've made it a poll. Which way makes the most sense to you?
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I think it matters how you visualize the fretboard. I visualize each string as an independent variable, and then think about the function of moving up (higher frequencies) and down (lower frequencies) the fretboard, so across the fretboard is horizontal (x-axis) and up and down the fretboard is vertical (y-axis).

But I analyze everything mathematically. YMMV.

David Doggett · Posted 20 Oct 2007 11:38 pm

I think "up" and "down" are almost universally understood to relate to pitch. So you go up to higher pitches and down to lower pitches, regardless of whether you are playing a string bass or a piano. Any other use would seem to be idiosyncratic usage by a very small and isolated minority of players. So on steel guitar, you can go up to higher pitches going across the strings, or up the neck toward the bridge.

Horizontal and vertical would seem to be relative to your position, and not so universal. They don't seem to have anything to do with pitch. On steel, I would probably never use those terms, but instead would say "across the strings" or "up and down the neck." But if someone used those terms I would think they meant literally according to your position, so vertical would be across the strings, and horizontal would be up and down the neck. On string bass or cello, I would think the opposite.

Don McClellan · From: California/Thailand

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question somehow but I thought horizontal playing meant playing one scale over all the chords of a song like playing a C scale over a song in C with Am, Dm and G7 in it. Blues players often play horizontally as do many country and blue grass players. Jazz players on the other hand more often play vertically. Vertical playing means playing a different scale with each chord. But this seems to have nothing to do with what you guys are talking about. Don

Ga McDonnell · From: N GA, USA

This is funny.

Typical of steel guitar, there's never likely to be a simple answer to even the simplest issue.

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Here's another way to look at it.

Pedal and lap steel especially have a long association with tablature beginning way back with Jerry Byrd.

Pictures of a fretboard showing scales, pockets, etc. show a map of how to get licks vertically (up and down) on the page or horizontally (across) the page. Similarly with tab - lines across the page represent strings, numbers on the strings represent frets; higher numbers, higher frets

I think this is where my concept of vertical and horizontal on steel came from and I tend to have mental concepts even away from the steel about how to lay out a song.

Even though I've played some piano, fiddle, 6 string, harmonica and banjo, those instruments somehow don't have the same relationship to vertical and horizontal as a steel does the way my head works.

jmo

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Perceiving the guitar (the strings) as a series of intervals stacked on one another, I totally see this as 'vertical'. I don't particularly see this as an essential common denominator terminology, though. I don't recall ever going there ("vertical", "horizontal") in discussing a technical or musical concept.
But I'll just die if my side doesn't win this poll.

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

I prefer to think in directional terms (north, south, east, etc,etc,etc) Smile

Depends which direction you're facing.

We could all get lighted GPS sytems in our fretboards. Buddy Emmons tablature could be found on mapquest.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Personally I think of vertical as up and down the fretboard and horizontal as across the strings, but i can easily see how the opposite could be just as valid. Its not a great descriptor is it?

Jaydee Maness said he thought of the fretboard as "hills and valleys". I took this to mean he saw the fretboard as being a level plane much like "sea level" and the pedals and levers providing access to hills and valleys (raises and lowers)

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

And the pedal rods go up and down except when they're horizontal in the case.

And the music goes round and round through the pickup coils, the cables and the speaker coils.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I think of it as "what's moving?" positionally (rather than pitch-wise): The bar? Or the position of the picking hand?

The earth's horizon is scanned from side to side. Therefore, 'horizontal' scales would involve moving the BAR from side to side (fret-to-fret) on the neck.

Vertical is up and down. On steel, that would be a scale or lick where the bar stays in one fret and the PICKING HAND moves vertically, up or down to different sets of strings.

I agree that we need a better descriptor. One that was so clear that we would never need to have a poll about it on the forum Smile

basilh · From: United Kingdom

To me "up and down" and "High and Low" and "Top and Bottom" ALL refer to the pitch of the note..

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

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