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Topic: MTV: Steel player takes solo, camera focuses on guitarist. |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Oct 2007 10:07 am |
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I was surfing and found a singer (Ryan Adams) on MTV with a steel player in his band, so I watched for a minute. The steel player took a really nice solo, and as he did, the cameraman ignored him and showed a close up of the guitar players hands instead. 
I hope Adams, upon viewing this, will instruct future camera operators to show the steel player when he is soloing from now on.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 17 Oct 2007 10:54 am
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This happens so many times and it drives me crazy every time. Steel solo while showing the piano player, the drummer's feet, close-ups of the bass man....or the audience.
Kind Regards, Walter
_________________
www.lloydgreentribute.com |
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2007 11:07 am
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I guess it's what the cameraman is told to do. I don't know.
I must say on Emeril Saturday night, Wayne Dahl was on camera alot intakes and outakes. Martina was the guest. It was so cool to see Steel featured so much on a TV Show you least expect. 
Good Job Wayne! |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2007 11:12 am
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Camera directors must be trying not to encourage all those grandstanding, attention-hogging gyrations the steel players are always doing.  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 1:11 pm
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It's rarely the cameraman's fault.
Almost all broadcasts (or video recordings) use multiple cameras - some fixed in place, some with slight movement, some portable. The camera operators are either told what their duty is; stay on one or more areas of the stage for the whole show, or choose what they think is interesting. It's almost always the first, and very often there will be cameras used for one or two performers and one always on the "frontman".
The director (on a live show) watches the feeds on multiple screens and switches from one to another based on what he thinks is happening, interesting, etc. Often the director has no clue what instrument is playing a part (or doesn't care) and whoever looks the most animated and/or interesting gets shown. And let's be honest - visually, it's almost impossible to tell when most steel players are "bearing down" and playing a solo - rarely do steel players change position or expression. With no visual cues, a non-musician will be at a loss.
I have a bunch of Byrds videos from the 70's - rarely is Clarence White shown for more than a second or two during a solo because he was usually immobile and "bluegrass deadpan" on stage - so the guitar solos would show Skip Battin on bass, because he was moving around.
With taped broadcasts it's the same thing except the director chooses what camera feeds to splice into the final cut.
Once in a while - and it's very rare - there will be a director who is also a musician, or who simply "gets it" and gets everyone "on screen" at just the right times.
On low-budget shows with one or two cameras, then it's the cameraman's job - and I kind of sympathize with them under those circumstances, especially if they don't know the band, songs, etc. They have no way of knowing what's coming.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 1:37 pm
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| yup, they always cut to Roy Acuff's yo-yo when theres a steel solo |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Chip McConnell
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2007 3:39 pm
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| MTV directors are certainly savvy enough about music to show soloists in action. They do it all the time in other genres of music. This would be another case of a music professional not having an understanding of the steel. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 10:38 am
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| Quote: |
But don't the artists have any input into which camera shots make it to the final cut?
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Nope.
First, on a taped show the "artist(s)" are long gone by the time the show is being pieced together; most artists are also not going to sit there and watch every camera angle (as would a director) and make their own decisions, nor are they qualified as to the VIDEO content; most contracts wouldn't allow it anyway. You put that in a rider addendum in a contact with ABC and they'll laugh.
On a live broadcast there would be no way to know anyway. I have seen written guidelines with time markings: Vocal 37 sec; guitar fill 4 sec; vocal 49 seconds; keyboard solo 32 seconds....etc etc etc. I used those mixing shows back in the non-automated days and appreciated artists who supoplied such clear info ( and had such a well thought-out show). That way lighting, mix, etc. was all right on the money. But the guys I know in video production never see that kind of detail nowadays - and honestly, back in the 70's nearly everyone working support at shows was a musician or at least knew what the instruments were. Now they just know their job and with the exception of shows filmed specifically for DVD production nothing like that shows up anymore.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 11:12 am
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For you girl watchers,most of the time on the[not so grand]opry,A lot of times when Tommy is playing a solo,you WILL see the most endowed pretty young lady in the audience,don't you know.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Bob Cox
From:
Buckeye State
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Posted 20 Oct 2007 11:23 am
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| How many remember years ago,that the camera at the opry was over head above the steel man and zoomed down on him.I bet Brillcream could have sold alot of hair products too. |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 9:42 am
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| In my personal opinion...the entire world does not want to give credit to the steel guitar because it is an accomplishment that does not come without a lot of hard work. The steel guitar player doesn't really even need a band...they can keep their head above water with no problem...steel guitar players do something that everyone else would love to do but they don't want to work at it LOL. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 10:39 am
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I don't think it's directed particularly at the steel guitarist. They seem to do the same thing with most of the band. Someone will play a great lead and they zoom in on the bass player, or if they zoom in on the right instrument they'll show his picking hand, so you can't see his handiwork on the fingerboard. It's a matter of the technicians not being musicians and not taking the trouble to study the subject they're videoing.
It doesn't have to be like that. I have an "Asleep at the Wheel" DVD where both Cindy Cashdollar and Herb Remington are playing, and they do an excellent job of knowing which is which, even though to the non-musician, the difference betweem someone playing a a 3-neck Fender Stringmaster and someone playing Pedal Steel could be quite a test. On that particular CD they have a plethora of people playing fiddle and mandoline, and two lead guitarists, and they get it right every time.
To me, what I find really objectionable, (and they don't seem to do it so much nowadays,) is when they zoom in and out to the rhythm of the music and pan from one place to the other so fast that your mind can't keep up with it. They're putting their own amusement ahead of the music. They should remember that when a show is advertised as "The Rolling Stones on Tour", people watch to see the Rolling Stones, not the technicians. Otherwise they might as well call the show, "The Fred Smith Video Distortion Extravaganza". Somehow I don't think they would attract such a large viewing public ! |
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John McGlothlin
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 10:58 am
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| I will give credit to the camera crew of Austin City Limits because out of every episode of that show I have yet to see a single time when they did not zoom in on the right musician at the right time. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 7:41 pm
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| John McGlothlin wrote: |
| I will give credit to the camera crew of Austin City Limits because out of every episode of that show I have yet to see a single time when they did not zoom in on the right musician at the right time. |
Yes, I've noticed that too. The "Asleep At The Wheel" DVD that I was referring to was an Austin City Limits performance. By the way, it's not widely known that you can buy DVDs of most of the Austin City Limits shows, and they run about 90 mins., including a lot more material than what is broadcast. |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 8:02 pm
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One band I was in, the guitar players name was Cory. After my steel solos, people would yell "Cory!".
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 9:38 pm
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I saw this video as well. The steel player is Jon Graboff, a forum member and a great player. I saw Jon with this band a few weeks ago in Montreal. It was an excellent show. We got to chat after the show for a bit. Great guy.
I too was a little disappointed by Jon not getting filmed for the solo. I don't think there was much footage of Jon at all, which was a drag. Unfortunately, it's the way things go with videos. The boys probably knocked off this video in the midst of their BUSY schedule, and moved on - while the editors made decisions about angles, etc.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 9:51 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Jim, What you say makes sense. But don't the artists have any input into which camera shots make it to the final cut? |
The artist? You're kidding, right? In a video, the director is the artist.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2007 11:01 pm
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| I saw the Ryan Adams video for 'Two' off his newest album yesterday, between commercials before Wes Anderson's new film 'The Darjeeling Limited'. Which was weird, but I thought it disappointing that while there is steel on the song, Jon was NOT in the video. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2007 5:32 am
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Mark, he is there, but not until the very end.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2007 6:27 am
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| Quote: |
| the director is the artist. |
Thanks b0b, for saying in 5 words what I was trying to explain.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 22 Oct 2007 6:57 am
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"Bluegrass deadpan." Jim, you're killing me!  |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2007 7:34 am
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| Chris, I must have been fighting for popcorn. Did Sheryl Crow show up at the end too? |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2007 11:12 am
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No, Mark, I think she was off getting the boys drinks.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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