What am I doing wrong?

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

..I am unable to register any cabinet drop on my homebuilt.
I make note of where the note is on 7th string.
I then mash A+B peds and hit 7th string again. No change. I add E-F lever, still no change.
Is there a better way of measuring cabinet drop?
Input will be greatly appreciated!

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Check it by hitting an open 4th and then with the A&B pedals.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Roger, I tried that. Still the same...no drop on the 4th.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

do you hear any drop?
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

my gfi doesnt have much drop, but it shows on my peterson when I hit A while tuning string 3
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

richard burton · From: Britain

When I was building steels, in order to overcome cabinet drop, I made one that was built to an old British specification, namely, I built it 'Like A Brick Sh#thouse'.
It had no cabinet drop, but it did have a terrible tone Sad

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

If you're doing all that and checking it with a meter and not your ear, you built a good one!

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

.....you want cabinet drop ? Whoa!

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Steve,
No I can't hear any drop but I would think a tuner's "ear" is more sensitive than my old, untrained one.
I'll try your "A while tuning 3" recommendation.

Richard:
Tone depends on so many things: Pup, Amp, your attack on the strings. I doubt if bad tone can be blamed on solid construction. What I do know is that my steel is also built like the outhouse you compare to: 7/8" birdseye maple, 1/4" endplates anchored at sides and bottom. 5/16" steel cross rods. It weighs 41 lbs
(19 kg.) But during these last 2 weeks of playing without an amp, I have marveled at the acoustics in this thing. It keeps ringing and ringing. Any more and it would be like an acoustic guitar.

Casey Lowmiller · From: Kansas

I would certainly try testing it with a stroboflip or comparable tuner.

If it still isn't apparent...congrats!!!

Casey
_________________
Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

My Gfi's drop didnt really show up untill I got my peterson Vsam,, If you are going to be doing intonation setup and accurate Drop measurements you should invest in a Bench mount strobe tuner
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I'm not a builder, nor am I an expert on psg's. However, I honestly think that at least in many cases, the cabinet drop problem is related to the builder's decision to try to make the guitar lighter than if weight had not been a consideration. How many times have you heard someone say, "this guitar is great, it only weighs xxlbs?" Or in the alternative, how many times have you heard someone say something like, "I have to get a lighter guitar, this one is killing my back!!"

It may not be true in all cases, but my guess is that in most cases cabinet drop is the result of a trade-off in an effort to build a lighter guitar.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Tom,
One would think this is so. But it seems no matter how heavy they are built, people are still fighting the drop with cross-straps under the cabinet etc.

I have also heard say that if you could make a pedal steel out of an I-beam the problem would still be there.
True, the lighter the material, the more potential for cab drop. One of the most popular brands still have some drop albeit quite minuscule.
So why should my guitar be any different? I don't know. Maybe it is the tuner that isn't sensitive enough but the thing is, it tunes the guitar just nicely. Nothing wrong with the sensitivity there.

I'll keep experimenting.
Bent

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Bent,

Good points. You mention above that your guitar weighs 41 lbs. I don't know for sure, but it seems like that is heavier than most.

Another possibility is your design. Maybe the distance between the strings and the center of structural moment of inertia (or whatever it's called) is less on your guitar, thus lessening the effect of the increase in tension of the strings on the bending moment on the body of the guitar.

Also, perhaps it could be the design of your changer. If most of your leverage (mechanical advantage) is in your bellcranks as opposed to the changer mechanism then the stress in the rods would tend to be greater which in turn would help to offset the increased tension in the strings.

This is all guessing on my part though because, as I said, I'm not knowledgeable of the workings of the psg.

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Hi Tom,
No real thinking went into this design. Actually there is nothing unique about this guitar. Very much a stock changer. Some changes just won't work..like the PF pedal. But the ones that do work, do so very effortlessly. Many mistakes were made. So many, in fact, that I feel the need to make a second one.

I think I lucked out with this one in that I didn't care much if it was a couple of lbs too heavy. The 7/8" maple is solid stuff.

You mention string spacing..a bit more than modern guitars since I used a 1972 ShoBud keyhead.

Sounds like you are knowledgeable about loads and stresses etc...engineer perhaps?
The pedal steel, with all its unique workings and problems, sure is an interesting piece of engineering!

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Michael,
What is it on your Emmons that makes it that much heavier than mine? More ped/KL? Mine has 4 ped, 5 KL
Maybe more aluminum. I feel that this maple body is quite heavy.

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

I dunno... it's 4 and 4... it's just heavy. When I get another chance, I'll weigh it again. That may be in the case, I just can't remember.

(I hate getting older...) Razz

_________________
Mikey D... H.S.P.
Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.

http://www.steelharp.com
http://www.thesessionplayers.com/douchette.html

(other things you can ask about here)
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o54/Steelharp/

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Pics? Sound clip? would love to see/hear it! sounds like a good one
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Alan, Steve,
Here is a pic hot off the press:

other pics can be viewed here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=117424

Alan said:
Bent, you seem to have designed your instrument with enough strength to overcome the problem. Well done !

Thanks for the kind words. We'll just have to see if this is so. Some more experimenting is needed. Maybe a more sensitive tuner?

Steve said:
Sound clip?
I will as soon as I overcome these hurdles:
No amp yet. I have a NV 112 on order. Should be here within a week.
Also, since I have been away from the steel for 20-odd years, I need to practice a lot in order to give you a sound clip that sounds half decent. This ain't gonna be easy...I am SO rusty! Besides, I was never that good to start with Smile

Ron ! · Posted 20 Oct 2007 12:41 pm

Bent,

I build several steels and rebuild a couple too.My experience is that some guitars have a lot of drop and some have none.I build a steel guitar from plywood once(people may laugh now)and it had absolutely no cabinet drop what so ever.
Why not?....I still haven't found out yet.
I do know that Birdseye and/or Hard rock Maple are flex.It's not that I do not like the wood(because the sound is the best)but it is not something that I would use to build a steel.I'd like to be innovative and find new kinds of wood(no-one tried before) to play around with.
Most steelers here on the forum would love to have a steel that has NO cabinet drop.Some of um will stand in line to get one.
But I have to say this though.........IMO every steel guitar should have a little of a drop in the cabinet.
That makes playing that steel more exiting and a challenge.

Keep up the good work.

Ron

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Ron,

When I decided on Birdseye, I did this for two reasons:
One, that it was used on the first steels like the Bigsby and the old ShoBuds
Two, that birdseye is a wood native to the northern US and Canada. It seems, however, that it is most plentiful in Canada at the present time. So plentiful in fact, that I went to my local lumber dealer here in London, ON, and spent an hour selecting the few boards I needed, among the quite impressive stock that he had.
I thought, who can go wrong with that wood when I read how some people are chasing the Bigsby sound or the old Sho-Bud sound. That said, I venture to say that just a small amount of the sound is in the material and more so in the hands of the player.
But that birdseye sure looks pretty!!

Your reference to plywood..are not all the formica guitars built with plywood? Take a 3 foot length of 3/4 hard maple. Take the same size plywood... My guess is that you will feel more flex in the plywood when you try to bend them.

Your opinion that there should be some drop in the cabinet to make playing more interesting...Here I don't follow you , but that might only be me. I am trying to think of one player who would want this "feature" that seems to be an Achilles heel to every steel player around. Certainly one would not want to own an instrument that does not drop out of tune every time a pedal is mashed, if the alternative was available?

Thanks for your encouragement....and that from another builder!
Bent

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic