Pickup orientation

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

If you are installing 2 identical pickups into a lap steel, bridge and neck positions, should one of the pickups be flipped around 180 degrees from the other? I'm curious if anyone has wired 2 up one way, then the other and compared tones when using both pickups at once?

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I'm no expert on this, but the coils would have to be wound in opposite directions to provide cancellation of hum.
Turning one pick-up around would do nothing, because the winding is still in the same direction. All this would also depend on how close they are mounted to each other. You could Email Jason at Lollar Guitars and ask him. Rick Aiello likely knows too, ask him.

Regards BILL

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

With two identical pickups, it's like Bill siad - nope, flipping one around doesn't do anythying.

You need a set of "reverse wound - reverse polarity (RWRP)" pickups to get a hum-cancelling effect in the middle position.

Nowadays, most pickup-sets come RWRP straight from the winder!

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

unless they are both humbuckers, then its ok pretty much. reversing the magnet's polarity is possible in some, then the 5-way PRS switch wiring works cool too, gives 5 distinct combos, all humbucking.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Why not just swap the 2 wires from the pickup?

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

I meant that to be an answer, THEN an alternative statement, ie its fine to combine 2 humbuckers, its not gonna hum if the pickups are identical.

the 5 way switch builds series or parallel combos of 2 of the coils in the 2 humbuckers.

if you have 2 ssingle coils you can just reverse polarity of 1, BUT you might cancela lot of volume along with the hum, BUT this depends on location of pickup in relation to bridge end of vibrating string.

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

The pickups I will be installing are 2 George L E-66 humbuckers. I guess I'm going to have to try both orientation options myself and record a bit of each to see if theres any difference in tone.

I know that reversing the ground and hot on one pickup will give me an out of phase tone, but I'm not sure that's a desireable sound. I've heard out of phase humbuckers on an ES-337 and its pretty brash with most of the low end cancelled out.

Now I might be interested in adding a switch that would choose between parallel and series wiring, I've heard that can alter the tonality as well.

I'll let you know if I discover any tone change with the experiment. Thanks.

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

Gregg,

I misunderstood your original posting. I've removed my previous reply clutter and will post it in electronics section.

Rotating any pickup 180 degrees horizontal in it's guitar body cavity ....even on a guitar with only one pickup.... can make a difference in tone for a number of reasons, especially with older or hand-built or scatter-wound pickups; Mostly due to materials and assembly differences within the tolerance margins a manufacturer allows, and sometimes in the design of some pickups to balance-out string gauge differences (keeping in mind that some pickups have a specific / correct direction of orientation with string gauges). It's commonly known that different pickups of the exact same design will often sound slightly (sometimes allot) different, ...old P90's a case in point. We see the same thing in amplifier power tube manufacture, where the finished product is tested for several parameters and then matched up into sets that better-match each others' slight tolerance departures from design specifications. So in the case of 2 pickups, rotating 1 can have twice the chance of a slight (or more) change in sound; And in the case of 2 humbuckers, they present 4 single coil pickups to the matter, ....4 coils, and 4 or more bar magnets or 24 pole-pieces or a combination of all, compounded even more if the coils are scatter wound; ....ie. considerable room for differences' alignment with strings and magnetic fields etc., ...and thus considerable chance for a difference in sound when a pickup is rotated 180 degrees in it's guitar body mount.

You stated the best answer: Try it and see what you find!

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For the 2 cents it might be worth in the discussion / archive:

If a difference in tone is found in pickup orientation, (or in-general for finding the "right" tone): Pickup(s) height, tilt and pole piece adjustments "should" be experimented with to find nuances and the best tone each person prefers; A 3-dimensional thang ....height, fore-aft tilt and latteral tilt... (and even a single coil pickup's sound can change slightly with fore-aft tilt); Any of which can be a solution in either accentuating a desired nuance or in getting rid of / masking unwanted nuances in pickups' tone character.

In testing / experimenting with pickups tone character / nuances, ...an amp's pre-amp gain set right at or very near the top of it's ceiling will accentuate pickup tone character / nuances, ....which allows them to be discovered for comparisons with different pickup settings, amp settings, harmonics responses, string attack, blocking techniques, etc.

Personally, I prefer pickups set & balanced close to the strings ....and pre-amp settings at, near or above the pre-amp ceiling (depending upon the situational preference). That provides a dynamically hot signal that offers an abundance of tone to be managed by playing technique and/or a guitar's volume control; Not to be confused with "hot" often referring to output voltage. In a graphical / sine / signal-envelope sense, ..."hot" dynamics references degrees of a fluid, touchy and abundant horizontal tone being compressed into the envelope by vertical voltage, ....while "hot" voltage usually references "just" the vertical; (voila an amp's Mater Volume control that allows final volume to be set separately from pre-amp saturation / dynamics). BUT many Steelers would not agree with my preferences; Preferring instead, cleaner tones of less dynamics dialed in on a narrower tone of their preference, which are achieved with pickups set farther away from the strings and/or pre-amp gains with plenty of headroom.
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Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

FYI - re GeorgeL pups, mine is wired with a sheilded cable, internally the coils are seriesed with one end of 1 coil grounded to sheild. They hook 1 wire to that "center" series connection between coils. So I think you can get series-parallel switchs to work no problem for either pup, or turn either pup into a single coil (ground the series tap), but I think you cant put the 2 pickups out-of-phase because of grounds/sheilding. ie it will be more hummy because it will defeat the sheilding on 1 pickup.

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

Thanks again for info guys! I have a feeling I'll stick with my original plan of testing the physical orientation both ways, comparing each sound, and then wire it up with the winning position.

I am putting in a blend pot instead of a pickup selector however so I can fine tune for the sweet spot of the 2 pickup sound.

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