Winnie Winston Book Question

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Ok, I'm tryin to learn "She Thinks I Still Care" on page 97 of Winnie's book and there's a place that calls for a 5,6,8 grip at the 5th fret with the A pedal engaged followed by the same grip on the 4th fret with the B pedal and a E string raise engaged at the same time. My E string raise is on the LKL, how do you rock your foot over from A to the B pedal and engage the LKL at the same time? Is there another way to get the same effect? BTW, Isn't Winnie's book great?

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

WEAR SOFT SOLED MOCCASINS.

I keep mentioning this, and nobody believes me till they try them out and realize I've got the answer, (well an answer at least) to a wide variety of problems like this. The mocs provide all the flexibility of playing barefoot, while giving just enough cushion to eliminate all the pain and discomfort.

I don't know why there is so much resistance to this idea. Maybe it's because they don't look as cool as cowboy boots. But whenever I let somebody try mine out, they always really like them.

All I can say is try them and see if they make a difference.

As far as this specific position is concerned, try raising your foot so you're playing tip toe on the B pedal.
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Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

That's what makes this beast so much fun.

Mike, I've found the soft soles let me feel where the edges of the pedal are, and allow me to "feel" my way around the pedals without resorting to peeking under the guitar. It's only taken 42 years to get there.........

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Alan Kendall · From: Maury County Tennessee

Mike ,about the only thing I can't play in are bare feet and Moccasins. Confused

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

Andy, I have found that it takes time in playing to get some of those moves. I have been playing for 27 years and it just seems like second nature for me now. My question to you is, does Winnie show the B pedal and the F lever together or is the A pedal engaged as well? If you raise the B pedal and the F lever and do not raise the A pedal on the 5th string there is another way to do it. Both of those pulls are a 1/2 tone or one fret pull. You could move up one fret with your bar and lower the 5th string a 1/2 tone with a lever and get the same notes. You can get the same notes in different places on a stee guitar but they all have their own distinct sound. Best wishes to you in learning to play such a great inatrument.

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

About the only way I can do it is to slide my foot to the right enough to miss the A pedal, instead of rocking it. They say that's wrong, but what ever works. I like the tip about moving up a fret and lowering the fifth string, thanks for that.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well if this is correct, you don't need Moccasins..

you need a Bb Lever or a 7th fret..

I'm looking at the book right now..

Grip 5,6 and 8 @ the 5th fret

A pedal raises 5
6 and 8 are natural notes.

ok then...

drop back to the 4th fret

same grip, 5,6 and 8

NO A PEDAL ( natural note string 5 )
B pedal Raises 6
E lever raises 8

the only note that changes is string 5..

so

grip 5,6 and 8 @ the 5th fret...

engage the Bb lever all by itself, this is the exact same thing as

5,6 and 8 @ 4th fret with
B pedal ( string 6 raise ) and E raise ( string 8 )

this exact phrase is repeated on page 98 with strings 3,4 and 5 and as well, same thing.

or

play grip 9,7 and 6 at the 7th fret with nuttin' pressed... A, C# and Eb...

Maybe Winnie didn't have the Bb lever back then.

He may have had Moccasins though Smile

the power of strings 5 and 8 with the associated peds/levers is whole new subject.

By the way, hitting the B pedal with the LKL E raise is really no big deal, just practice the move for a while and it will come into play.

Now with the same 5,6 and 8 grip, try hitting the A ped with the E Lower and get yourself a 13th...or something close to it.. Sad

One of the most fundamental basics that is often overlooked is to play with as little exerted energy / movement as possible . Don't make the playing difficult, find a way to make life easy.

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

Funny you should mention this. A few days ago I began working on that song. It's a tough move for me (only 3 months in). I also have trouble with the RNR (E-Eflat)while holding the A pedal. I've heard it mentioned here before, so I bought a pair of "CROCS". This, with a lot of practicing, has giving me the flexibility, although I still need work, the Crocs are the only shoes I play in now.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Me, RKR, and the volume pedal have a long standing inability to play well with each other... but the mood is improving...

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

Flexibility of ankles (or lack thereof), awareness of one's body postion in space...

it's just easier for some folks.

Phil Halton · From: Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA

I'm a rank beginner to the steel, but it seems to me there is another way to get those same notes without the gymnastics. Here goes, a 5-6-8 grip on fret 5 with pedal A down gives the notes F#, C# and A respectively right? By moving that grip to fret 4 and then raising 6 & 8 with the B pedal and E raise lever you get the notes EFlat, C#, and A.

The B pedal and E raise lever are merely cancelling out the fret change, and the only note that changes in all this is the F# on 5 which goes to a EFlat. If you have a lever that flats the 5 string, which I do on my carter starter(RKL), then you can get notes EFlat, C#, and A by playing that grip on fret 5 without pedals and the lever that flats the 5 string.

From your description, It appears he's trying to move from an A6th chord(or an F# minor) to an AFlat 5 chord, So, for me, the same move would be to stay on fret 5 and release the A pedal and engage the RKL lever. Of course, it wouldn't sound quite the same perhaps, but the identical notes would be achieved .
[quote="Andy Sandoval"]Ok, I'm tryin to learn "She Thinks I Still Care" on page 97 of Winnie's book and there's a place that calls for a 5,6,8 grip at the 5th fret with the A pedal engaged followed by the same grip on the 4th fret with the B pedal and a E string raise engaged at the same time. My E string raise is on the LKL, how do you rock your foot over from A to the B pedal and engage the LKL at the same time? Is there another way to get the same effect? BTW, Isn't Winnie's book great?[/quote]
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Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Guys, thanks for all the great advice. I'm gonna try the fifth fret move with the RKL and see if it works for now but I'd also like to work on learnin the original move too. I've learned to play in pretty much whatever I'm wearin but my favorite is my ole "Chuck Taylors". Thanks again guys.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

a well worn pair of chucks is about equivalent to soft soled mocassins. I used to wear those things till they were practically like sandals, then duct tape em and wear em some more. Stopped buying em when they went from $19.99 to $49.99 a pair during the "grunge" years.

I got this Jaydee Maness lick where he goes from BC to B with the LKR, then back to BC...same problem but reversed. Starting to finally get there but its taken alot of time and facial grimacing.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

DVA: A well honed Proprioceptive System must be what gave Story Musgrave his maneuvering advantage when he was servicing the Hubble. He was awesome.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Mike, you hit the nail on the head. If your guitar has a reasonably 'soft' pedal action, $9.00 Wal-Mart moccasins are the thing. Use 'em often on gigs and all the time in the studio.
PRR

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

We should be playing phrases in alternate positions that require LESS energy, not cheaper Moccasins.

Bb lever or 7th fret with no peds or levers for this 4th fret phrase.

Phrases which use the A Ped and LKR or B PED with LKL are not common and we would be hard pressed to find many players who have them in there normal vocabulary. They require too much energy and thought.

Unless your E's are on the right knee.

Smooth flow....

minimal effort...

Countless threads on what to do with the Bb Lever, well here's one right here..

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

To me, one of the interesting things about playing steel is not just the notes that are played, but how one gets to those notes. In the phrase we're talkin' 'bout here, if you mute your strings after the first grip, it doesn't matter where you play the second grip.But if you don't mute, and there's movement involved, Going up to the 7th fret, and using a different grip won't sound anything like the original.
Now, this may not apply to this example, and I don't have a guitar set-up right now to check. I have a guitar in pieces strewn all over my living room! And I'm not referring to just the way a slide to another fret sounds, but also to the sounds made by engaging the pedals and knees. Sometimes getting there can be half the fun.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Maybe Winnie didn't have the Bb lever back then.

Tony, I think the Bb lever came into common usage at a much later date..just when, I'm unsure...I do remember making the trip to Billy Coopers in about 1992 to have that lever installed on my Mullen but I was probably about 10 years late.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Brad, yes I believe the timing is everything. But this is 2007, Bb levers are common.

I am not making any challenge what-so-ever to the book, just a fast forward reference to 2007. It's kinda like reading a medical book from 1950, it's very valuable but not as up to date as a book from 2007.

Many times we play things but don't actually evaluate why were are playing them, especially if they ARE awkward.

it's not wrong, it's a different view.

Who knows, maybe someone was playing that tab above from the book and thought of the Bb lever because of it.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Wow. About a year or two ago, somebody asked the same question about playing that part of the song.

I'll repeat what I said then: the sound of that lick is kind of a steel guitar standard. But this tab was written 30 years ago for a simple 3x3 copedent -- so it requires that awkward pedal/knee combo to get it.

As others have pointed out, these days, many have the B-to-Bb knee lever on their guitar. One of the great uses of that lever is to release the A-pedal and then engage that B-to-Bb lever. No need to move the bar. Sounds identical to what Winnie tabbed, but it's so much easier play. A VERY common usage of that knee lever.

When learning that tab -- I just substituted the B-to-Bb lever. Winston only tabbed it "the hard way" because so few people had that knee lever back in the day.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

I'm makin some good headway with this tune and kinda worked my way around the awkward 4th fret phrase for now. the Bb lever at the 7th fret sounds interesting too.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Ooops, stay at 5th fret with the Bb lever. On my Carter the Bb lever is the LKV. When I operated this lever my foot is completey off the ground in order to get to the 3rd fret and do an A pedal with the E raise. Should I try keepin my foot on the ground when usin the LKV?

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