Changing the E9th tuning to C# minor.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Jimmy Day and Buddy Emmons had a big part in creating the E9th tuning, and set-up, as we know it. In my opinion, the E9th tuning and set-up is arranged around a major harmonized scale, and I love it. What if you changed the E9th tuning to it's related minor, C# minor. Then, arranged the pedal and knee lever set up around a C# minor harmonized scale? Pushing pedals one and two with the C# minor tuning then would produce the 4 chord in the C# minor harmonized scale, F# minor. Has anyone ever thought about this? You could get all the major chords of a major harmonized scale out of the minor tuning and set up, just as you can get all the minors out of a regular E9th tuning and set up. In a way, it is just a reverse way of approaching things.

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

Ok, I'll be the first to ask it... if it's just "reverse," why bother? On the surface, it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table; just sorta flips the fork over to the right side of the plate and puts the spoon and knife on the left. Workable, but confusing.

Now, here's backwards for ya... Sonny Curtis tunes to open A, and mashing the pedals drops it to E! I'd be loster than Janet March on that guitar...
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Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Didn't Johnny Cox have a pedal E13 set up on his triple neck Zum ? That would be about the same as a C# minor tuning. If I remember right from watching him play with the Time Jumpers a while back he was using the E13 neck pedals more like a C6 set up than an E9. It was fantastic sounding.
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Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Don't laugh Michael, when I got my very first steel (Harlan Bros. Multi-Kord), I set it up just that way! First pedal gave you the IV, the 2nd pedal a suspended I, the 3rd pedal gave you a a seventh chord, and pedal 4 turned your open chord into a minor. Then I found you guys, and everything changed!

David Doggett · Posted 13 Aug 2007 11:20 am

Well, most country music is in major keys, so why would country players design the E9 neck any other way?

Nevertheless, E9 is set up to work well with minor keys. If you hold down the A pedal, it becomes a C#m neck. So at any fret, just using that single pedal gives you the relative minor. Release the pedal and move up two frets to get IV, two more for V. Or, if you are at the Im chord with the A pedal down, just drop back one fret and add the B pedal to get V. My LKV raises string 7 a half-step to make that a V7, the second most common chord in minor keys. Also, from the Im position, releasing the A pedal and pressing the B and C pedals gives the important IIm chord. If you need to make that change too quickly for that footwork, you can get the same IIm by dropping back two frets and hitting the E-lower lever. But the pulls with the B and C pedals sound better. I like that sound so much that I added a raise of string 8 on pedal C to match the one on string 4. This also allows me to have two F#s tuned differently. The one on string 7 is in tune with the B chord in open E. The one on the 8th string raise is in tune as the root of the IIm chord with the B and C pedals. Also, with the E-lower lever, I added a whole-step lower on string 2, so instead of having a D# unison with string 4 I get a useful scale note (with both the G#m chord and the B6 chord). These simple tweaks make E9 even more minor key friendly.

Oddly enough, in minor keys, except for the Im chord, the next most common chords are the IV and V7, for which the open major chord tuning of the E9 neck is well suited. So you get the Im chord with a single pedal that is already under your foot most of the time. And you get the IV and V either with no pedals, or with the familiar A and B pedals. This is probably easier than if the neck were tuned to a minor, and you had to mash pedals to get the needed major chords.

And if you really want a neck tuned to an open minor chord. Well, that's the C6/Am neck (or on uni the B6/G#m mode).

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

I have plsyed the E13th pedal version since 1969. It is VERY versatile, but can be very confusing if you can't change the way think about the 'grips' for the chords. (L-H) E B D E F# G# B C# E G#

If you can find a Winnie Winston book, he has the 12 string chopedant that Emmons used. It is very similar to mine.

Send me an e-mail and I will send you my chopedant.

Thanx,
Jim

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

My LKR lowers the 2nd and 9th strings to C#, changing the entire tuning to C#m7.

If I push pedals B+C, I get the 4 chord F#m.

Am I missing something?

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Probably just thinking about tuning to C#minor and running the harmonized minor scale would help a person know more about the E9th tuning and running the harmonized major scale. Of course C#minor is the relative minor to Emajor. If you didn't want to change the tuning you could practice running the C#minor harmonized scale, which is a Emajor harmonized scale only starting on the C#minor. The thing to think about is if you did change the tuning, and you did change all your knee levers and foot pedals, what would you have them do?

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

b0b I was thinking more in terms of tuning the open B strings to a C#. Then something different would need to be done to the B and C pedals.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Every time I try to think about it, I end up back at E9th. I don't really see the point of it. You need to get major and minor chords to play in a minor key. Minor keys have as many major chords as major keys have minors. There's nothing to be gained from tuning to a minor key, as far as I can see.

Actually, the C#m would be harder to play scales on because of the large interval between the G# and C# strings. On E9th, the big interval is between B and E, and the second string provides the extra scale notes in that "gap".

If your goal is to better understand minor key theory, it's a bit easier to visualize on the C6th neck. C6th is Am7.
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Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I agree with you b0b. There really is no difference in the E major harmonized scale and the C# minor harmonized scale. The only difference, if you can call it a difference, is the starting point. Another difference, if you can call it a difference, is knowing what harmonized scale you think you are playing. To give you an example of what I am thinking about: Suppose you were in the key of C and the progression followed these chords-C,F,Dm,G7. Dminor can in many cases, but not all cases, be used as a substitution for either the F chord or G7th chord. If the rhythum section was playing a F major, do you think in terms of Fmajor, or Dminor?
If the rhythum section moved to the G7 chord, do you think in terms of G7th, or Dminor? It is possible to play the Dminor harmonized scale while the band is playing the F chord and the then playing the G7th chord.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Minor keys use different notes depending on the chordal context. I don't think that there's really such a thing as a "D minor harmonized scale" that exists independently of the chord progression. If you know that the chords are Dm, F and G7, you use different notes from those if the chords are Dm, Gm and A7.

I don't see how tuning the pedal steel differently would help at all.
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Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

b0b, maybe it wouldn't help anything, but it is fun to think about it.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Check out Ernie Hagar's tuning in the back of Winnie's book. He tuned to an A6 that changed to an E9 when the splits were pushed. . .just the reverse of the E9 which goes to an A6 when they're pushed. It's interesting to see what else he did with his 6-pedal setup and 2 knees. He still got the I to IV change off of the A6 tuning. Interesting concepts.
PRR

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