Advice needed on first Weissenborn buy

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Hi all,

After considering for a very long time I have finally decided that I want to get a Weissenborn guitar. However, I don’t know much about what would be a good buy so I am hoping that you could help me find one.

I have been playing guitar for more than a decade but I have only played a little lap steel on a acoustic guitar with a raised nut (enough to find out that I like it though).

I have a limited budget but at the same time I know that there is no point in buying the cheapest one out there. I’m a huge Ben Harper fan and want to get as close to his sound as I can get (when he plays acoustic Weissenborn that is - by the way does anyone know if he plays other acoustic lap steels, like for example Dobros/resonators?).

Here are a couple of the Weissenborns I have been checking out – the most expensive one is also what I would consider my absolute spending limit unless you can convince me that I get a world in return if I spend a little more:

Weissenborn LM by Gold Tone:
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/lm_weissenborn.html

Weissenborn SM by Gold Tone:
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/sm_weissenborn.html

Is the extra money spend for the SM worth it? I can see that you get the solid mahogany body but I don’t know what that does for the sound – please enlighten me.

And then I found this on eBay - Clearwater:
Link to auction on eBay.

I know the Gold Tone brand but have never heard of this Clearwater so I am a bit unsure about that one. Are there any other brands I need to check out? I know brands like Superior and Lazy River are popular but unfortunately they don’t make models that fit my wallet (at least not to my knowledge).

If you guys know of any good sellers that are located in Europe, I would also very much like to hear about them since ordering from the US involves high shipping fees, taxes and so on. I have found this one seller in Spain that looks decent, http://www.weissenborn.es – does anyone have any experience with that particular store?

Looking forward to hearing from you - and thanks a bunch in advance! Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Hans

Gary Lynch · From: Creston, California, USA

My 2 cents. Post your request for a good used Weiss on the Reso-Nation forum. I would rather have a nice hand built one than a off shore knock off myself. I have seen good condition USA/Canadian built Weiss's in the $800 range.

If you want a solid wood Gold Tone, also request that in your post there are not hard to come by used. Solid wood is almost always a better way to go on a Weiss.

You need to register with Reso-Nation but that is easy.

http://www.reso-nation.org/

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Besides the Weissenborn.es site you mentioned, Palm Guitars in the Netherlands is also recommended as a good source for such instruments. The recorded samples available on that eBay auction make it sound like a good deal.

Another site with lots of European visitors is the International Guitar Seminars board. Search for "weissenborn" to see reviews of the various models out there.

Good luck on your search!
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Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Rance White of Lazy River Guitars makes beautiful weissenborns.
His prices are very reasonable, and the quality & workmanship are superb.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I play a Superior Weissenborn and am well satisfied.
A fancy one will run you about $1,000.
www.berkeleymusic.com/Hawaiian.htm

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

I bought a solid mahogany Gold Tone and it had really bad sounding strings on it. I changed them and it was better but muddy. I slotted the bridge saddle and topped it with fret wire and it opened up the bass some but overal it still was not very dynamic or exiting. I sold it to a friend and I bought one of Rance White's Walnut and spruce models and am very satisfied.
_________________
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Fruit flies like a banana.

Robert Murphy · From: West Virginia

I purchased a used Gold Tone spruce top from our forum and have been very satisfied with the tone. I may upgrade later but for $300 patience can be a virtue

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Wow, thanks for all the comments. It’s nice to get some help.

Gary Lynch:
The reso-nation request is probably a good idea but it does have two things against it:

1) I don’t feel competent to judge an offer e.g. how good a weissenborn it is, how good condition it is in and so forth (doing it over the internet of course doesn’t help)

2) Buying from a US seller is a problem. Asuming the seller is willing to ship to Denmark the price of $800 will be around $1150 when shipping and Danish taxes (around 30%) is added. But I also think that buying used instruments is the best thing when you have a limited budget. I just need to find a European seller – any tips on doing that?

Brad Bechtel:
Palm Guitars seem more expensive than Weissenborn.es but I am glad you can recommend the latter.

I have searched the boards in the International Guitar Seminar and sadly a lot of people haven’t got good things to say about the Gold Tone Weissenborn – do you guys feel the same?

Unfortunately I can't hear the sound clips from the Clearwater on my pc. Do you know have any knowledge of the brand?

Rick Alexander:
Yes, I have read nothing but good things about the Lazy River weissenborns. I’m sure his prices are reasonable but unfortunately they still cost from $1400 which will be around $1900 including shipping and Danish taxes and that is simple too expensive for me .

Erv Niehaus:
Superior weissenborns also seem very well praised. At $1000 (around $1400 with shipping/taxes) they are still up there, though. However, perhaps I should look for a used Superior.

Do you know of any stores in Europe that sell Superior weissenborns?

John Damns:
Again, sorry to hear bad things about the Gold Tone weissenborns. I was hoping that they were a good buy.

Robert Murphy:
Just saw your comment before replying. Interesting to hear good things about the Gold Tone (Is it the Solid Mahogany you got?) and $300 seems like quite an offer.

I have read both good and bad about the Gold Tone weissenborns so as mentioned above this leads me to the following question:

What is the general feeling about the Gold Tone SM weissenborn?

I have found a web site where one Rob Anderlik tests several weissenborns including the Gold Tone SM: http://www.robanderlik.com/guitar_comp.htm. It seems to sound all right to me but there is a reason I’m asking you guys for help Smile

. (note: The sound clip “Joe’s tune” - which is the best - needs to be downloaded by right-clicking choosing save destination as… to work).

Once again thanks to all of you for your helpful comments,
Hans

Mark White · From: Michigan, USA

Hans: There quite a few clips on YouTube of people playing Goldtones. You can judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=goldtone+weissenborn&search=Search

Gary Lynch · From: Creston, California, USA

Looks like it's time for a European luthier to start building reasonably priced Weissenborn style guitars.

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

There are probably a number of decent Weissenborn types out there. Go for the sound you want first, then how it looks as second. A good European builder is Musicalia in Italy. They built the John Pearse label Weissenborns, which I have, and it is great.

Thanx,
Jim

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

If you are already a player, I would recommend against the Gold Tone. I have owned both Gold Tone and Superior. The Superior was....well...superior. And by far. But the price is just not that much higher. People who have owned both Superior and Lazy River say the sound is comparable. But that the Lazy Rivers look better. The Luthiers in your part of the world can probably do you as well as those two do and without the long distance shipping charges.

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Hans,

Hi from a fellow Scandinavian! Smile

If you get into lap steel, you are likely to become addicted to it and want to have a better Weissenborn than a Gold Tone before long. I started out on a $81 Oahu from the 1930s - it was (and is) a fine "poor man's Weissenborn" and served me well while saving up for my Lazy River. I have tried many Weissenborn copies that sounded inferior to my cheap Oahu, all costing much more. A cheap old guitar or a convereted acoustic is a good way to go, and can be closer to Ben Harper's sound than a poor Weissenborn copy.

It seems to be "hit and miss" with Gold Tones and other cheaper brands. No consistency in quality. And Musikalia was mentioned above - it must be the same there, as I tried a 1,600 Euro Musikalia that sounded very dull.

About shipping from the USA, if you use USPS air it's much cheaper than UPS, FedEx etc. The USPS prices have gone up lately, but should still be well less than $200 (I paid $80 shipping for my Lazy River from the US to the UK last autumn). Guitar prices in the US are so much lower than European prices, that even when you consider shipping and taxes, you will have a hard time buying cheaper in Europe than from the USA.

There is a guy in Italy called Ermanno Pasqualato who builds Weissenborn copies for just 570 Euros. His website is here. I have not tried his instruments, but they look like good value and he has sound clips on his site. If you speak French, there has been some discussuion about his guitars on the French slide guitar forum. Also, check out Roberto Reani ("slidinbob") on that forum - he has built a stunning Tasmanian blackwood Weissenborn for himself.

Just my 2 cents.

I hope you'll find an instrument you will be happy with!

Fred
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Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Ok, I think all your comments have convinced me that I am better off by spending some more instead of going with the Gold Tone.

And hi to you too Fred!
Funny thing is, I had seen some of your youtube clips and I thought you had a Scandinavian/Swedish accent in the Oahu-clip but location said UK so I couldn’t figure that out but of course people are allowed to move from Scandinavia Smile

. By the way I really like your playing – nice Swedish tune too Wink

.

As stated above I think you (and others) are right in that buying a Gold Tone is not the best way to go. Your point about US shipping is also valid, especially when the dollars is as low as now.

BUT I am most of all glad that you gave me the link to Ermanno Pasqualato. The sound clips on his site sound amazing to me and I am already in contact with him. He seems like a very dedicated and nice guy. So this might be the best option of all.

I checked out the French forum (using babelfish – unfortunately I yarned through my French lessons) and it doesn’t add much information but via Ermanno Pasqualatos site I found a link to another Italian site that praises his guitars.

It almost seems too good to be true that you can get a hand made weissenborn for 570 euros. It would be nice to hear from someone who has first hand experience with his builds, but everything seems to be in order, I think.

I have also posted a request for a used Superior, Lazy River or the like in the wanted to buy forum.

Thanks all,
Hans

Gary Lynch · From: Creston, California, USA

In the long run, a quality Weiss will hold its value or may even go up in value and you get to play a great sounding instrument.

Manfred Nabinger · From: Germany

Hi Hans,

there is a line of weissenborn copies which are made in china. They build erverything from all-laminated bodies (about 250 €) to all solid instruments (mahagony)about 670 €). You can buy them from musikhaus thomann here in germany (www.thomann.de). no tax within the ec and low shipping rates. The all-solid-instrument sounds really good. the german brand name for these instruments is "whiteborn". the "clearwater"-instruments might come from the same factory.

german master luthier andreas cuntz builds great copies of weissenborns (www.cuntz-guitars.de).

good weissenborn copies (all solid koa and mahagony bodies) were made in great britain under the brand name "koa island". if you can get one of these instruments, i would recommend to buy it.

Manfred

Bob Bowman · From: Staffordshire, England

I've also been in contact with Ermanno in the last few days and he does seem to be the real deal. The problem, as ever, is that no-one I know has seen/played/bought any of his instuments.

He has a waiting list until Oct so this his must be good news in his favour.

Anyone know anyone who has played one?

Cheers Bob

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