i am interested in sho-bud . any advice

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Someone might selling a sho-bud double neck, and each neck has 10 strings. I was wondering what I need to look for as a buyer. It might have been the super pro but i forget. i believe it had pro in the title. I know that these are a reputable brand, but even a good brand could have a lemon,right? Also a ballpark price range if possible.

Thanks
Kristen

Mike Ester · From: New Braunfels, Texas, USA

Just make sure you don't get involved with this guitar:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=107865

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Kristen, I'd like to suggest that you find someone trustworthy, if you don't know, and trust, the seller already, to accompany you to inspect the guitar. There are many, many things that can be wrong with such a complex machine (particularly an older/vintage guitar) and a trained eye could keep you from making an expensive mistake.

Good luck in your quest.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Kristen, Sho-Buds were a pretty good guitar in their day. A newer modern steel guitar might be what you are looking for, unless a Sho-Bud is a "Must Have" item.???

Roger

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

You really gotta know what you're doing when you buy an old Bud. There's a bunch of models and variants, and they can be in any condition from great to lousy...and some of the bad stuff you can't see unless you know what to look for, like wear in the changer.

Would this be your first steel?

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

The people selling it have an excellent reputation and have worked on my guitars for years. I've bought a few guitars from them as well. Their main expertise is in guitars but they work on many other stringed instruments. When I told them about the old fender 400 i got they said "the one with the cables?" and then they mentioned that they happen to have a pedal steel for sale. Anyway the story is that it belonged to a friend of theirs who was a professional musician and recently passed away and that it works fine and comes with a seat but no volume pedal. I know that they wouldn't sell it to me (or anyone) if it didn't work. I can check it out next week. I was just wondering if there are any particular Sho-Bud models that I should stay away from because of inherent defects or problems. I am not particularly interested in it because its a Sho-Bud brand. I just happened upon one which was for sale.

Thanks
Kristen

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I am thinking you saw this guitar or you are able to play it right?

If not then you are buying sight unseen, I would not do it, peaple have gotten burn so much buy those deals.

Also know that owning a sho-bud you will have to be doing alot of maintenance on it, mostly tuning issues, other than that good luck.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Kristen,

If you want to utilize the experts on this forum (and there are plenty of ShoBud experts), I would suggest taking pictures of it, especially the undercarriage, and posting them.
_________________
Al

My equipment:

One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about

William Steward · From: Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

After having the experience of being a novice buying an old guitar that had problems and parts missing (an old MSA S-10) I can say I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction of owning a vintage guitar and meeting industry luminaries like Maurice Anderson who helped me get the thing working properly. One thing about old guitars which is pretty much universal is they are heavy....if you plan to move it around yourself and aren't all that burly (maybe you are) give it some thought. Also if you aren't mechanically inclined I would strongly recommend spending the bucks tp get a newer instrument from a reputable manufacturer. I saw the new generation of guitars produced by the (Shot) Jackson family at the last TSGA conference and was impressed with the ingenuity of their design. Check them out at http://www.jacksonsteelguitar.com/index.cfm Also check out Carter and MSA for something lighter to drag around (I think I have one arm longer than the other from my first purchase). Perhaps this is not a useful answer to your question but I offer it as one novice to another. Smile

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

William, you should carry a twin reverb in the OTHER hand to even it out!! Whoa!

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Kristen, If and when you are in the market for a new steel guitar, attend the ISGC on the Labor Day weekend, where you can try out most or all of the new steel guitars on the market. You may even latch onto a good used steel guitar.

Roger

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I cannot seem to connect to a Sho-Bud webpage describing their instruments. I just find bits and pieces over the web. Has Sho-Bud gone out of business or merged (or bought by) another company? Are parts hard to get for these pedal steels?

Thanks
Kristen

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Go to links at the top of opening page, under Maufacture, click on Jackson Guitars this is as shobud as it gets, David Jackson and Harry was and is shobud. the are building new guitars as we speak.

ernie

David Doggett · Posted 20 Aug 2007 8:31 pm

Shot Jackson and Buddy Emmons started making Sho-Buds in 1957 and the Jacksons continued making them through the ‘70s. During certain periods some Sho-Buds were made under the Baldwin name and the Fender name. In 1979 the Jackson family sold the company to Gretsch, and some Gretsch Sho-Buds were made through the early ‘80s, when for all practical purposes the line came to an end. Here is a guide to the various Sho-Bud models: http://www.planet.eon.net/~gsimmons/shobud/models.html, and there is some company history on that site also. The Jackson family now makes Jackson guitars: www.jacksonsteelguitars.com.

While Sho-Buds have always been known for their beautiful wood and lacquer finishes, the mechanics varied widely from very good to not so much, although the tone was usually good to very good. There were not always sharp demarcations between the various vintages and models. The parts were mixed during the switchover periods. Because of the long history and lack of clear model demarcations, it is difficult to date them precisely, and even more difficult to judge the quality of the mechanics without playing the instrument. Also, because of their age, it is difficult to judge the wear and upkeep without seeing and playing the instrument. Therefore, it is risky to buy an old Sho-Bud sight unseen, and risky to buy one even after examining and playing it if you are a beginner who may not know how a good pedal steel is supposed to work and play. The older ones especially are now generally considered project guitars for people who like to buy them for their looks, tone, nostalgia, and for collecting and investment purposes. Sho-Buds with wear and mechanical problems can be a real problem for a beginner who just wants something to play. But with some experienced guidance it is possible to find some that have been well kept up or upgraded that play fine.

There are a number of people who specialize in restoring and/or upgrading Sho-Buds. Duane Marrs was a long-time master builder at Sho-Bud: www.duanemarrs.com/Restoration.html. John Coop, Ricky Davis, and others on the Steel Guitar Forum are also known for their outstanding restoration of Sho-Buds.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Fine post, David. This post should be the standard reply for those asking about Sho~Buds for the first time.
The big thing I find about older 'Buds (I've owned four and played a bunch more) is that they're invariably played to death - and the parts are slack, bent and flimsy, including the changer which is sooo important to a guitar's playability and sound. I'm having one of my 'Buds totally Cooped-up for this reason, changer and all. John Coop makes parts that are superior in quality to the originals but still true to the actual design. For all intents and purposes, I'll have a brand new guitar, right James? Cool

As much as I'm hooked on old 'Buds (just like I am on vintage amps and 6-strings), I'd never recommend a Sho~Bud to a beginner. Too much frustration. When the last 'Bud I bought arrived at the house a few weeks ago, I remember looking it over and adjusting it and saying to myself, 'boy, I'm glad I know a thing or two about these, or I'd be mighty pissed right now." Smile

That two-tone Desert Rose SD10 for sale over in the classifieds is the perfect guitar for someone who wants the classic lacquer body without the mechanical worries. It's got me perspiring, actually. What a fine guitar at a great price.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

David, thanks for your response as well.

Unfortunately I cannot borrow the instrument for a few days since it is not the shop owners to "lend", and I respect that.

I can, however, go in, set it up and play it as long as i want, and take pictures of it. If it has a good tone and the pedals and knee levers all work, I will take some pictures and send to the forum for some further buying assistance. Are there any particular areas I should concentrate on with the pictures?

Thanks
Kristen

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Kristen,

Take photos of:

The whole guitar, from the front and back.

The changer area, from above and from the endplate where the hex or nylon tuners are.

The headstock/roller nut.

The undercarriage as a whole, the changer area (where the springs are) and closer pics of the right and left side of the undercarriage.

The case.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

Kristen,

Photos of the top, changer end (top and bottom), 3 or 4 shots of the underside, showing levers, changer, and rod connections... These will help in dating the guitar and determining which version of the mechanics it has. You have to figure out what system is under there before you can know what potential problems there might be.
I have owned 7 'Buds.... only one of them had significant problems.

Well I see that Chris was about 4 minutes faster than me.......

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Yep, Quick Draw LeDrew, they call him. Very Happy

_________________
Best regards,
Mike

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

At least that's what the girls in high school used to call me. Embarassed

_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Kristen are you playing a "Maverick", it is a student model from sho-bud.

If it is not a maverick, I appoligize.

I wouldn't buy it if it is, look at some of the modern Pedal Steel courses out now, they are designed with multiple knees and I think the maverick only has 1 or 2.

You are limited with the maverick and really encourage you not to get it, I could see a person wanting to learn PSG on a maverick and then giving up very easy.

Save your money for now, look at other student models they offer so much more.

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Also while you are taking photes can you post them.

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I went down to the shop today to look at the guitar for a few hours. I took it out of the case and assembled fairly quickly for my first time. The foot rods were all numbered. .As I moved the foot pedals I noticed the rods and linkages moving , finally to the end changer with the nylon ends on them. All eight pedals worked and changed the strings. Some went up and some went down. I noticed that some of the pedals worked for one neck and the other pedals worked the other neck. But no single pedal worked both necks at once. I am assuming that is how these pedals work.

From the explanations I have heard and the holes I saw by the nylon end-pieces I think it it a three up and two down mechanism. There were eight foot pedals and they all seemed to work ok. . There were five knee levers. All five moved rods and linkages to raise and lower tones , similar to the pedals, , but the end knee lever, while moving some rods and linkages (like the others) did not seem to change the string tone. My guess is that for this particular knee lever, either an adjustment has to made at the changer end, or it is broke.
From the pictures, there was a switch at the end of the guitar that didn’t do anything., but it appears to be wired to another switch which did work (look in picture between the springs, the switch is “hanging’ there”. When this switch was in one position, Pickup 1 would work. When the switch was in the other position, Pickup 2 would work. Both pickups did not work simultaneously however. I don’t know if the guitar is supposed to have two switches and one was broke, or if the guitar is supposed to have only one switch and the other one was wired in as a quick fix. The small black knob mounted on the end next to the switch didn’t do anything. I am guessing it’s a tone control? I am not really concerned about the electronics as I have wired up many electric guitars over the years. There was good output from the pickups, and tonewise was pretty good considering the strings looked they were sitting for awhile. It is evident from the dust and stuff that the guitar was sitting for a while. The owner was a working musician who was sick for a long time before passing away.

It is not the cleanest guitar in the world but it is certainly playable. I am not sure if the one knee lever is broken or not, but it should still do a good job with 4 knee levers. Hopefully judging from the pictures you can give me an idea of what work might be needed down the road (what may break down the road!) and how much I should consider paying for the beast if I decide to get it. I tried to get most of the pictures you all asked for.
Thanks For Your help.
Kristen

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