are you a purist or a stylist?

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

A musician friend of mine gets a bit put out when people take liberties with a melody. This person is classically trained and the classical players are only allowed to play the written note, no improv.
There is the school of thought that says "one should always play the melody the first time thru, and then you can go nuts". There are those who give the songwriter no credit and jam from the first note. Where do you stand on this and why?

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

I remember reading somewhere that artistically inclined people prefer complexity over simplicity. I find that this is true among some guitarists as 'artists'. I've heard quite a few players who really like to jazz things up, and sometimes the improvisation reaches the point where the musician is merely trying to 'dazzle' rather than make a meaningful contribution to the song.

I prefer complexity in the arrangement of a song - i.e. how all the different parts fit together to make one big sound. But I don't like complexity in the individual parts. When I play a part, I like to keep it simple and try and make it fit with the melody or the chord structure. I try to keep the parts simple enough so that I can play them again without having to worry about remembering what I did.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I believe this can be a difficult question.As i started on piano by the time i took up steel i knew music theory but more important was knowing chords.Depending on what band one was with and style comes into play.When my self and others at that time took up steel we copied licks of other players and shared with others what we had learned or stumbled on to.
And another thing comes in to play.When i first started working in bands i was playing fiddle.I got hooked on steel and was forever asking the steel players how they did that.lol.
I learned so much from two of the best.One was a country picker and the other swing,pop,jazz or what ever.He gave me some great advice.He told me you have learned enough now to play on your own.Stop listening to other steel players and you will develope a style of your own.
There is a draw back to learning many styles.It is so easy to mix styles in the wrong song and not even realize you are doing that.For some it is hard to play straight country while some can and not over play.
With what is played on the radio today i would not think one would have to wory about it.If you have no idea what i am getting at skip my post because i am not sure either.

Carol Johnson · From: Califonia, USA

Keep it pure but with taste and style. Simple improvisation is always necessary for a unique sound. Tone is really important too. The tone should always be clean and crisp and defining...

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

whatever the venue, singer, band, and crowd wants to hear. cc

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

As the late John Propst said, "Play the melody. It's the part that makes every song different for the instrumentalist."
_________________
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Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.

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Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Or you could say: if you think of something better than the melody, play it. Otherwise....

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

I guess I would have to say "stylist".I have a terrible time sticking to the melody. When I intro a song or start a lead break I try to play the melody and the same at the end but,in between it's just a mess of junk.
I've done a lot of home recording through the years,some good,some not so good,but the most satisfing thing that I've recorded so far is a lead break on Dobro on "The Dance".I "made" myself stick to a simple one note lead line and in correct phrasing. That was realy hard for me to do,but got me started on being more disciplined. PJ

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I (attempt) mostly try to stay with the melody.

Since I "recreate", not "create" like the session pickers there are some songs with a signature lick that is a must.

I like Jeff Newman's "Show me what you can't play", too.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I say "When in Rome...". There's room for all of these approaches. If someone asks me to play a particular melody or harmonize a line, I do if it's within my technical limits. But if there's room to improvise and I feel something different, I play that.

With that said, for my own entertainment, I prefer the jazz tradition of playing the head once or twice, then going nuts (don't say it), then coming back to close.

My mom was a classically-trained singer, and she used to say "David, why do you play all those weird notes? Why don't you just play the nice melody that's written there?" She meant well, but just couldn't relate.

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

In my youth I used to "jazz" everything up. I thought I was "improving" it. Then a sax player told me that I should always establish the melody so that the "people" can recognize it and the guy will ask the gal to dance because he can dance to THAT tune. Then I worked with a guy in a country band (I still didn't appreciate country music) and he told me that the mark of a professional is to play what it appropiate for the style in which you are working. Trying to "jazz" up a country tune only irritates the audience who LIKE the music the way it is and not the way you arrogantly think it ought to be. Since I started singing for the folks in the rest homes, etc. I have really stuck to the meoldy because they KNOW how the song goes and if you get too carried away they think you don't know what you're doing. Personally, I consider myself a utility singer. I sing a lot of different styles of music with integrity, thanks to the older, wiser, musicians I have worked with. My fave venue is a saloon with a small intimate crowd so that I can see their faces. I like to interact with the audience. My first experience with music was in Las Vegas lounges and I prefer a seated audience to a dance venue simply because that's what I started out with. I "learned" to get comfy with a dance crowd because all my road gigs were dances. As a songwriter, I do like to hear someone else's interpretation of my tune, after they SING THE TUNE.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

I differentiate between "interpreters" and "recreationists," both operating within the generic boundaries of country music.

Interpreters view country songs generally as open for individual expression and improvisation after certain signature licks are met. Recreationists, OTOH, view their music as museum pieces not to be changed in the slightest. They therefore play each song note-for-note, lick-for-lick like the Ray Price record, ET record, etc. or whatever. Of course, most players fall somewhere between the two camps, but are generally on one side of the fence or the other.

There are some guys around here who are strict recreationists. I don't begrudge them that take on playing, and in fact, admire their dedication. Personally I fall more on the side of the interpreters. I believe that music is a living thing, and as such, always in a state of change, rather than static. Of course, this has gotten me on the wrong side of the strict recreationists, and so I don't generally work gigs with them.

I like playing western swing, which for a great percentage of it, is improvised music. And I like playing dances in honky tonks, which means if I get a wild hair and feel like playing a C6 solo on a Ray Price tune, by God I'm a-gonna do it.

I've done country-rock, western swing, Progressive Country (now called "Texas Music"), hard core Johnny Bush, cover band, and now I'm back in Gary P. Nunn's "Texas Music"-style group where we do country, swing, Chuck Berry, reggae, Latin-flavor, whatever you got. What the heck, I'm working 120 dates a year, and right now, that's okay with me.
_________________
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Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I know music has changed.ANd as i said i used to play many styles.Playing in a western swing band we didn't dare touch the country neck,and you had better not copy some other steeler.OF course i realize many country bands did this.Before being hired i was usually asked if i played like so an so.I said not if i can help it.I always told them any thing i did always sounded a lot like me.
It had nothing to do with ego.I played music for a living most of my life and did not want to be a clone.
Now that i am retired i do like to try and play a couple of songs like Jascha Heifest(the ones he didn"t have to use water cooled strings so as not to catch them on fire) on violin.Now if i could only get past the first note like he did.LOL

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

Right on, Herbie!! I feel the same way. You said it well when you said music is a living thing. Sometimes, I wanna sing something with a lot of gusto and other times I don't. Depends on how I feel at the moment.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

With all respect to our friends playing classical music, the melody on a popular song is usually a little less interesting than something from Mahler or Wagner. After the vocal line has been stated by someone at least a couple of times, improvisation seems absolutely called for to avoid boring the audience.

At least if the audience is like me. I don't like to hear the song straight. If I wanted to hear it "like the record" I'd go listen to the record. I'm paying live musicians for their interpretation.

The long time convention in jazz is to state the melody and then depart from it. And then come back at the close.

-eric

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

Oh, man... could I tell a story on one of our members... but not a chance...

You know who you are... Devil

_________________
Mikey D... H.S.P.
Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.

http://www.steelharp.com
http://www.thesessionplayers.com/douchette.html

(other things you can ask about here)
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o54/Steelharp/

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

Ah, yes! Reminds me of my high school (English)teaching years, my room next door to a math teacher.

Boy, how we got along, much as might have a priest and a rabbi. He could never understand how we got anywhere, for all the latitude of interpretation, and I always felt sorry about the 'sterility' of math and its either-right-or-wrong atmosphere.

He was a great neighbor, and the dialogs still go on today whenever we meet.

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

So according to Erics post,I guess I'm a JAZZ picker.LOL,'cuss that's how I try to do it.Now I know what to tell folks when they ask what kind of music I play.In the past I said too loud and slightly off key. Laughing

PJ

LJ Eiffert · From: California, USA

Hey Dayna,all you folks are right about this subject. I remember my old Bandleader Jack Tuckers saying,if they can't feel the song in their heart than let them feel it in their feet. Thanks for the E-Mail. Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

Billy Wilson · From: El Cerrito, California, USA

Dayna, I'd classify you as a stylish purist. You've got the best of both worlds goin'

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Definitely not a "purist".

But I can visit a style in a purist manner.
Bluegrass like Bill, Reggae like Bob, Bebop like Bird etc.
It just isn't written in stone that that is
the ONLY way to do that song and style.

As to melody, play something close to the writers intention
with your style overlaid on it,
but not so it displaces the writers intention.

After that it's your solo and not their head.
But the head is a good place to build from,
leave and comeback to, in a solo.

I can see doing early Ray Price like 'Crazy Arms'
as a reggae tune,
and Bob Marley's 'No Woman No Cry' as a Ray Price shuffle.
Just as long as it is done well.

For some this is madness,
but for me it's just music.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

I'm from the Jeff Newman school of thought in that I "Play the melody". This is what I do and then add my own interpretation with a shift in the chords I use for harmonies when playing a solo.
If I'm backing up someone it's play the melody or the signature lick or turnaround.
Don

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I've always been drawn to long, evolving melodies. Beethoven's 6th, Duane Allman and Jerry Garcia got me started ("Elizabeth Reed" & Dark Star") but I found ever more seductive melodies in classical, Indian, and some structured jazz music. The classic country fiddle tunes have got it going on too - the melody goes somewhere instead of just lying there like a slug. I am most interested in the schemes players use to create melodies - I just popped out of a year of listening to and analyzing 7 specific violin concertos - obviously there are a lot of different answers to this question....

Contrary to some, I most admire players who can draw on a wide range of influences - Steve Morse and John McLaughlin come to mind. Of course you can be inappropriate, but when a master can meld their influences seamlessly, ahhh.
Steve Morse solo (YouTube)

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Great discussion, everyone.

I definitely put myself in the stylist camp. I play in an original indie-folk-pop band (or whatever you want to call it) and take few leads. Sometimes they're over a one-chord vamp, and there is no melody to play or not play. Sometimes I'm playing over a set of chord changes that appear nowhere else in the song. Occasionally, I'll play a whole or part verse, and I might loosely play the melody if I feel like it.

I also play in a band that does Bob Dylan, Neil Young, and Grateful Dead tribute shows (no costumes or anything, just musical appreciation). It took me a while to get used to it, but as the lead guitar player, I've found that the people at these shows, especially the Dead tributes, want to hear someone go OFF. Way off. A lot of the improvising is done on vamps that have little else to do with the song. If there is a more traditionally arranged song, I'll often find myself at least paraphrasing the melody. I play maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of these shows on steel, and I usually stick closer to the melody as it seems to make sense.

I should also mention that at most of the live shows I attend as an audience member, I want to hear songs, first and foremost, but if there's a solo taking place, I want to hear the player express themselves.

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