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Topic: Pickups , what can they pickup ? |
Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
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Posted 20 Jul 2007 5:14 pm |
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Every piece of wood is different, so every unplugged guitar should sound slightly different accoustically.
When the guitar is switched on, is a pickup capable of detecting this difference in the wood that the guitar is made from ( Thus affecting tone ) or does it only detect the movement of the strings over the magnet ?
Can a pickup also detect if there is an all pull or a push/pull changer ?
If every piece of wood is different how can any one make of steel have a "signature sound" without cloning the tree it is made from ? |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2007 5:35 pm
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Alan, the pickup doesn't recognize any of the acoustic properties of a guitar. What it does, is respond to the string vibrations. As the string moves through the pickup's magnetic field, there is a current induced into the wires of the pickup. This is the signal that goes to the amp. To be exact, the pickup also vibrates since it is attached to the guitar, which also has an effect on the "signal" coming from the pickup.
Various materials, construction methods, pickup mounting methods, etc., all affect the acoustic properties in various ways. This has a direct impact on the string vibration, which in turn affects the "sound" of the guitar. That's what gives each guitar it's own character.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2007 8:00 pm
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Mike- Sorry but a pickup will respond to the acoustic vibrations of a guitar body.
Take a pickup out of a guitar, plug it in and bang on it with your finger . Hear anything? No strings involved.
Hold a pluged in pickup hard against the body of a guitar as far away from the strings as you can get it . Strum the guitar. Hear anything? |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2007 10:23 pm
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Yep, body wood has a significant effect on tone. You find wide differences in the sound of Fender Telecasters attributable simply to the wood - light swamp ash, heavy ash, alder, "sandwich" bodies, poplar, etc. - they all sound like Teles, but each wood has a slightly different resonant peak, and different cuts "massage" the tone a bit more.
The construction is equally important, though - position of pickup(s) in relationship to string harmonics, bridge/changer design/weight/attachment, and all the other mechanics enter into it as well.
Caveat - I find wood to be less important on modern steels, where the high-impedance pickups (22k and such) tend to make guitars sound awfully similar. As pickup impedance is lowered (to a point), the overall construction, especially the resonance of wood bodies, comes more into play.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 3:17 am
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Interestingly enough, there's a Fender "factory tour" on Youtube right now, and the Fender guy says that the body and neck woods have far more effect on the guitar's tone than the electronics (pickups) in the guitars. On a straight guitar, even the weight of the tuning keys comes into play on the tone and sustain equation.
In short, everything about the guitar (except the color) affects the sound. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 8:40 am
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Guys, if you read my post more carefully, I explained that the pickup does not, itself, "hear" the acoustic properties of the guitar. It "hears" the effect of the acoustic properties on the STRINGS, which the pickup translates into an electrical signal.
In other words, the strings are the means by which the guitar's acoustic properties are transformed, by the actions of the pickup, into the signal which is sent to the amp.
Being that the pickup is mounted to the guitar, it too will vibrate, causing some, though slight, movement in the magnetic field, which will in turn affect the signal produced. The method of mounting the pickup will determine the strength, and sonic results, of this effect.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough...maybe I'm still not?
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 9:02 am
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Mike - I think you're being clear here. An ideal electromagnetic pickup, as opposed to contact or piezoelectric pickup, senses only string movement relative to the reference frame of the pickup.
But there are two obvious second-order effects. First, if the pickup is vibrating, that has an effect on that reference frame. On most solid-body guitars, I think pickup vibration is a generally a very small second-order effect. Second, pickups have a degree of microphonicity. This responds directly to the acoustial signal put out by the guitar. Some pickups are very microphonic, and this effect can have a significant effect on tone.
Otherwise, the effect of the physical guitar on tone is through the exchange of energy with the strings, whose physical vibrations are in turn sensed by the pickup. Of course, this energy exchange is heavily influenced by the specific details of the guitar's construction, materials, and so on. |
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Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 10:22 am
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All very interesting stuff , when I asked the question I didnt know that a pickup could be affected by the accoustic vibrations in the body of the guitar,I thought pickups were mounted to minimise contact with the body .
This must explain why so many players like the Emmons P/P , it must be of a certain construction.
I have never experimented with changing things about on a steel to see if it sounds better, Ive owned a a sho bud and an emmons ,and played them just as they were. I liked the sound from both because I tweaked the amp to get the sound I wanted.
I have mostly been on the side of tone is in the hands and amp settings but as Im not that knowledgable my thoughts could be changed and the previous posts are well explained.
So is the Emmons P/P the almost perfect construction for a pedal steel with a well mounted Pickup that picks up the accoustic vibrations to perfection ? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 11:14 am
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| Quote: |
| So is the Emmons P/P the almost perfect construction for a pedal steel with a well mounted Pickup that picks up the accoustic vibrations to perfection? |
I think that's a completely different question, currently being addressed in this thread: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=113099
To me, this is all purely a matter of personal taste. But I tend to doubt that it has all that much to do with the way the pickup is mounted. Unless one has a very microphonic pickup, I think those other effects are low second-order. Or if one could get the "push pull tone" by just changing the pickup or the way it's mounted - well, there you go, lotsa guys would be doing it and flaunting it. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 11:44 am
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First, my apologies to Donny and Jim. I shouldn't have included you in the "guys" reference. Your posts were fine.
Mark, could you elaborate on your statements? How are we differing?
Dave, you are, again, quite correct, and eloquent.
Allen, I wouldn't say "perfect", but I would say it's a great construction, in terms of sonic character. The reasons for it's sonic character have been discussed at great length and depth. There are many, many reasons why an Emmons sounds like an Emmons, and a Bud sounds like a Bud. Some of those reasons seem to be closely held secrets. A search into the archives will provide some interesting reading, I'm sure.
The bottom line is...you'll get more out of your guitar by practicing than twiddling with the mechanics. 
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 11:55 am
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Here is another discussion:
CLICK HERE |
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Alan Miller
From:
, England, UK.
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Posted 21 Jul 2007 4:30 pm
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Dave , yes you are right ,it seems I went off on a tangent oops. as I said Im not very knowledgable about this subject but I do find everyones comments and depth of knowledge very absorbing I have learned a lot from this handful of replies.
Mike and Lee, I will have a read of the archives , thanks for pointing me in the right direction, searching the archives wasnt my first thought when the question came to mind but I know this subject of tone and where it comes from goes round in circles so I have been very patiently and politely redirected.  |
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