C6 Intonation in a Band Context

Eric Dunst · From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

Hi.

I've been going through many of the older threads regarding just intonation vs. equal tempermant tuning and I could use some simple, practical advice for playing "in tune" in C6 with my band. I am not looking to stir up a hornets nest here.

I play a bit of lap steel (mostly Hank/Don Helms stuff) in my band here in Brooklyn. I play a 6 string Fender Champ. I used to tune straight up, but more recently began using a tuning method I found on the forum: E's and A tuned to 440. C's and G tuned to 444. It seemed like a good compromise to me and it satisfied my rhythm guitarist's complaints (for a while). However... now he's complaining again about my sounding out of tune in "C," (apparently "E" is just fine).

Any suggestions on a method of tuning that will allow me to be "in tune" with both the band and myself?

thanks,

eric

Tim Tweedale · From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada

I don't know, because I've never heard you play, but as a player with good ears who's listened to a lot of other steel players, I can safely say that a vast majority of intonation/tuning problems can be solved by working on bar accuracy. I suggest tuning 440 straight up and spend 5 or 10 minutes a day with a tuner, working slowly on arpeggios and checking your intonation against the tuner, noticing where your trouble spots are. Steel guitar is a very difficult instrument to achieve good intonation on, like a fiddle, and the frets can be as much a hinderance as a guide, due to the parallax with which you view the fretboard.

Intonation alone requires daily practice.

-Tim

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

First of all, I am not an expert in this field of discussion.

Someone in my distant past told me that when playing with a band 442 should be used for tuning.

I do not know the rhyme or reason for this, or even if it is valid. Does anyone out there know?

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Eric,
Drop by a gig of mine and I'll show you how to tune by ear and a couple ways to make sure you sound in tune with your band.

I'm playing Sunny's in Red Hook friday at 10:00
and Hank's on Atlantic sunday night.

Bob

David Doggett · Posted 4 Aug 2005 2:21 pm

Don, Paul Franklin advocates tuning to 442. He does it becaue he feels it matches the steel to the "stretch" tuning of keyboards in the same octaves the steel mostly plays in. In addition it helps with cabinet drop, and if you tune by ear (or just intonation, JI), it helps keep the 3rds from being so flat compared to the equal temper tuning of keyboards and guitarists who tune straight up to the meter. So it seems like a good idea for several reasons - but only the ear can tell if it works for a particular player and particular guitar.

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Where specifically are you having the trouble? I mean, what specific combination of strings in what context is giving you problems? I ask because I can't think of any Don Helms type playing on a six string that would require any special tuning considerations--it should be mostly two note harmonies (without slants!) except maybe for ending strums or something.

Your ear and your bar hand should be doing 99% of the work here (assuming your tuning is even close to begin with!

)

-Travis

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

If you use an E6-Tuning (E to 440) you probably won't have a problem. The same goes for the A6-Tuning & B6-Tuning. With the C6-Tuning (C to 440) your biggest problem comes when playing an open (E)-String. I tried tuning my C6 to (C-442) one night, but; for some reason, I was completely in another world from the rest of the band! I think the biggest problem there was between Steel and Bass! Whatever it was, was awful! When playing non-pedal steel, I tune all open-E’s to 440, but with PSG, I tune the basic key-note to 440. E9 = E-440, C6 = C-440. or whatever the tuning!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

[As a piano tuner] I'm not sure of the validity of tunning to A442 in an ensemble, as John B. pointed out.
It's true that the higher the pitch the brighter the instrument will sound, and therefore this may be a means to make the steel stand out.

I'm assuming the bass player and guitarist are tuning with meters. If the A and E are fine, I would try tuning the C to a 440 reference as well. The C# may sound a little sharp to you in the triad, but might satisfy the situation.

A post I read from Paul Franklin said that he tunes his thirds to 438, to account for cabinet or 'error resolution' as I think he called it. That would amount to a reference of 442 on the C#. I think the rest of the guitar was tuned to A440.

But here's an idea: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7340650270&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
"Tuning Pedal Guitar E9 by Paul Franklin".

Just make sure your tape player runs at the right speed before trying this at home.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

Scott, Jerry Byrd has said as much __ good enough for me.

Rick

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Scott has summed this up pretty well.
Theory is ok, but compromise will be involved.

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

I tune my guitar straight up and then if something sounds like its out a bit I pick two or three strings around the bad one and then bring it to tune by ear. Works every time. I'm not suggesting this would work for everyone but it works well for me.

Rick

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: