Addressing The (C) Pedal With Celerity

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Developing a motivation to address the (C) pedal change with celerity can be frustrating. Most melodies include the E to F# change of the E9th tuning. Using the 1st string F# note is less favorable in capturing true melody lines. I'd appreciate reading about others who have thoughts concerning the awkward change.

richard burton · From: Britain

Bill,
Do you mean that pressing the C pedal with celerity (speed) is frustrating, or getting your foot over the C pedal is frustrating?

Some players put the E-F# change on a knee lever

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Richard,

Yes, all of those things and more. I've used the knee lever change with one exception. My link to smoother E to F# transitions includes raising the 8th string to F# as well. From random observations I've determined that the combined changes of both E's moving to F#'s on the knee is not commonly accepted throughout the industry. I've been living those changes for many years. They facilitate the minor chord changes, that are so commonly found in melody lines. Thanks...

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Bill: You should get Al Brisco's, [I think thats his name] CD on playing like Ralph Mooney, he just jumps right over there & hits that C Pedal like theres nothing too it, he has me doing it now. I was an idiot & used to move my right foot over there waiting in anticipation to get a chance to hit that sucker, now I am just picking up my left foot & hitting with that one. I beleive Jeff Newman was right about Mooney though, I think he does have a 3rd foot that he uses, but not all of us do!!

Ernie Pollock Shocked

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Ernie,

I met Al Brisco at the annual east coast steel guitar show that Frank Caruso has been hosting. His tribute to Ralph Mooney may have been in the works at that time. He played one instrumental that stood out from everything that I heard that day. I should have made inquiries about the title. It haunts me to this day. When I play, I rarely lift the heel from the floor, as so many C6 players do with relative ease. It becomes necessary when certain note bendings call for a rapid change of full tones. I regret not having the Mooney tradition by Al Brisco in my collection of instrumentalists.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I found the 'C' pedal to be too redundant; put the 'A' pedal on P3 and a G#->F# lower on P1, with E->F->F# on LKR. E->F# is a pretty big swing on a lever, but I like having an easy V chord (without the dom. 7th) to the left of things.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Functional utilization of pedal 3 with celerity is incumbent upon a modicum of legerity associated with the lower left appendage.

Through random observation, I've deduced that a small but not insignificant percentage of practitioners who lack such aforementioned legerity are, as often as not, as well challenged by contemporaneous mastication of chicle-based confections and traditional bi-pedal ambulation, as well as exhibiting choreographical skills resembling une âme malheureuse avec deux pieds gauches.

Of course, y'all's mileage may vary. Mine does all the time.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Herb,

Could you break it down a bit? There is no question that you are capable of going to the head of the class with steel guitar discussions and display an aptitude that would control the exchanges. When you show your teeth this writer knows when to back off. I hope you'll appreciate my pointing an accusative finger at what seems to be a weakness in the standard E9th setup.

Joe Savage · From: St. Paul, MN

Funny Herb. Walking and chewing gum at the same time........!
I may be corrected on this but I believe Mooney raised his E to F# independantly from the B to C#. I've put that (Eto F#) on the 8th (or 9th) pedal of all my guitars and just hop my right foot over. Works really well for me. Some of those Mooney licks became much easier to get to after that addition.
Joe

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Bill
It's simple to break down. The first paragraph says that the quick usage of pedal 3 requires some nimbleness of the left leg.

The second paragraph rather amusingly... imho... says that I've seen a few guys who lack that skill that couldn't chew gum and walk at the same time, poor souls who dance with two left feet.

Regarding P.3 being a weakness in the tuning, perhaps so, though that weakness can be overcome by the aforementioned legerity. Wink

Having E-F# on a knee lever would require extra body movement and coordination that wouldn't sound like simply lifting a foot off a pedal, so I consider the P.3 problem to simply be a problem with ergonomics not yet solved.

I know I've taken you to task in the past... several others have also, as you're aware I'm sure... over what I considered your use of excessive verbosity at the expense of plain, straightforward communication, but I daresay that you feeling MY use of bloviation to be "showing my teeth" rather strange, or at least hyper-sensitive.

Rest assured, no such offense intended. Rather, just an ill-considered use of humor. Please excuse the lack of smiley faces, and consider this an apology. I will also acknowledge that in this thread, your use of big words was kept to a minimum, with the exception of "celerity," which I had to look up myself... and where I found "legerity." Wink

Truly, many of us use humor here in Forumland.

I've said before that you're quite an intelligent man, have good ideas, and almost certainly don't talk in public like you write... you couldn't possibly, since few if any people would ever reply what you say. You couldn't order food in a restaurant, communicate with the guys that repair your car, fix your roof, sell you clothing, or whatever.

So, I think I've come to the conclusion that here you're just putting people on, for the sake of humor and amusement. Which is okay, I do it a lot myself. So have at it, and rest assured that your use of the language, however obfuscated or incomprehensible, will go unchallenged by yours truly. I will correct statements I consider incorrect, like saying a guitar without knee levers is like a boat without oars, as was written in another thread.

And thank you for acknowledging that I know a little bit about steel guitar, probably less than you think, however. I was in the advertising business and hope I'm communicating with clarity in any of the stuff I write here, so that the majority of readers can "get it."
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Herbster, ton Français est Xcellent Very Happy

ton Anglais aussi d'ailleurs

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Crowbear, you and I can thank Google for the Francais. Smile

I'm just a hillbilly from Texas, albeit one with a good English vocabulary and in command of one language only.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Ben Rubright · From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA

The Herbster wrote:

Mike Shefrin · Posted 26 Jun 2007 9:42 am

deleted.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Herb,

Thank you for the explicit and systematized writing style. You deserve a lot of credit for the wonderful things you do on and off the forum. You have made some excellent points as you explain the down side of the E to F# change as a knee lever change. Then there is the up side. If you consider holding the E to F change while the E to F# is used, it surpasses a half tone walk down of half tones by a long shot. It isn't possible to manage accurately, using the (C) pedal. In other words, 3 accurate half tones lowered in sequence is a great method for tracking melody lines. Of course, the E to Eb lower is included in the better control of 4th string half tones. A much more problematic example still exists with that (C) pedal. In very concise terminology, "awkward" would suffice to commence a blameworthy arrangement.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I developed the short pedals that would be perfect for locating the (C) pedal in a quick response location. One short pedal could be mounted slightly above and between the A B pedals. The one I use to lower the 5th string is mounted on my steel in like fashion. To access the 4th string raise would be vastly simplified. No side motion would reduce the effort required appreciably. My short pedal features a fancy threaded adj. bolt in a verticle position. It works fine with my current setup.

Don Walters · From: Saskatchewan Canada

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Bill
Yes, ideally it would be nice to have a lever dedicated to E-F#, and another on an opposite leg (for independent usage) dedicated to E-F, so your scenario of playing distinct E-F-F# notes could be easily obtained. For the Lloyd Green style of chicken pickin', I still think the quick release of a foot pedal is called for. So all three discreet changes would be desireable in the "best of all worlds" copedent.

I recall I put a change on Lloyd Maines' black SD-10 Mullen a few years ago that was a half-stop on a knee lever that raised E to F and then F#, but I can't recall what note and what string we used for the 1/2 stop feel. The guitar was black, I remember, but the gray matter has turned to white with the passing years. Wink

_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

I could not fail to disagree less with some of the above.......I think? Shocked

Arch.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

The emphasis on pedal development over the years might safely be referred to as minimal. I sold a Fender 400 to a lady who wanted to learn to play the instrument. Soon after the purchase she complained about the pedal spacing. I solved the problem by cutting a triangular wedge made of hardwood. Once in place the (B) pedal angled toward the (A) pedal. The width of pedals quite often exceeds what I would deem to be impractical. The ultimate pedal design of the E9th tuning may very well be forthcoming in the near future. A common interest located at the left foot will determine the future of not so orderly ABC pedals. Think triangle and a (C) pedal with 4 changes. A compact triangular cluster featuring a reduction of frictional drag at all stress points would be nice.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

to paraphrase barry goldwater

Obfuscation of vocabulary in the pursuit of jocoseness is no profligacy.

Duncan Hodge · From: DeLand, FL USA

Bill, I agree that the C pedal is absolutely essential to certain melodies. When I feel that I'm about to hit that most erratic and humbling of all pedals I take a pause of about 1/10 a second and ask, with all sincerity, "Lord, if it be your will, please let this sound good and not let the audience hear the pull of the other string". With practice I have been able to use this technique and the minimal delay is chalked up to an "expressive pause".
I hope that this helps.
Duncan

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Dan T.,

Interesting paraphrastic analytical expression.. I wonder if the American politician, Barry Morris Goldwater, who would be 98 years old in this year, ever commented on American music, as others have done?

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Duncan H.,

Thanks for the excellent account given on acquainting the left foot with the (C) pedal. The transition of left foot skills are gradual, requiring hours of practice. Just as "Billy The Kid" wore his gun high on the left side, with the flat end of the butt facing out. my search for a smoother "draw" with lightning quickness, resulted in opting for the knee lever change. Trust me, my knee will pull up that 4th string before the conventional foot change lands on the (C) pedal.
The poise and demeanor of Billy The Kid signified quickness. I mean to say that apprehension caused by a reluctance to turn left or right, blocks the way to trial and error.

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Bill states:
Just as Billy The Kid wore his guns high on the hips, with handles pointing forward, my search for a smoother "draw" with lightning quickness,

Bill,
Do you have any historical reference to support your statements, or is this a writer's embellishment implying fact?

By the way this popular photo is a reverse image. Fact is William H. Henry (aka William H. Bonney, aka Billy the Kid)was indeed right-handed.

Just trying to separate fiction from fact.....

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