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Topic: Wood Verses Metal |
John Kalament
From:
South Carolina
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 3:34 am |
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Which neck would produce a better Tone and Sustain,
Wood or Metal ?
John |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 4:22 am
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| Both are used in virtually every great sounding steel guitar made. Neither is "better". Tone is subjective. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 6:45 am
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I opt for one or the other primarily on "looks".
On a classic lacquered guitar I really prefer a wood neck with matching inlay and on a classic mica guitar, I feel a metal neck is most appropriate. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 10:21 am
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| The popular lore is that metal necks give a brighter sound and wood necks give a warmer or darker sound. How much truth there is in this idea, and how much difference it really makes would be hard to say without a blind test with everything else being held constant. |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Andy Zahnd
From:
Switzerland
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 1:02 pm
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I guess metal necks have a problem with the temperatur(esp. when you play straigt in the sun!) With the temp.-change you will have tuning-problems, a woodneck will have less troubles. And I strongly belief metalnecks are brighter sounding, in some situation shrill.... but then with allways the same temperatur NO tuning problems at all! Just my 2 cents, I'm maybe wrong...  I play in 2 different bands and in one band the woodneck is great sounding, in the other one is the metalneck the far better guitar..... so the point is.... find it out by yourself!  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 1:09 pm
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The only way a metal neck could cause tuning problems is if the changer and/or the key head is attached solidly to the neck.
The only instance I know this happening is with the Emmons p/p with a bolt on changer.
Usually the metal neck just fits around the changer and the key head just fits over the neck with no direct attachment. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 4:20 pm Re: Wood Verses Metal
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| John Kalament wrote: |
Which neck would produce a better Tone and Sustain,
Wood or Metal ? |
That would depend entirely on who's doing the playing! 
IMHO, obtaining the "best guitar that's made" is a pretty much useless endeavor until you've reached a level of more than average skill in playing.
Beginners will find little or no advantage (other than bragging rights) in owning a $5,000 guitar vs. a $3,000 guitar.
Pros at the "expert" level can take advantage of the nuance of difference between the two. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 5:18 pm
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Erv.... I agree with your opinion of the detached metal neck not having much effect on tuning. I differ on one point no one has brought up. Metal heats faster than wood and sunlight really heats the neck, causing heat to reflect off the neck, making the strings hotter. There in lies the problem. The strings will go out of tune quicker with a metal neck.
I played a gig in Palm Springs a few summers ago. Temp was 112 Degrees. The neck became so hot, it melted the enamel on the pickup wire, allowing a short to develop. I now had a pick up that measured out at 5000 ohms, thin and scratchy. I had to have the pickup rewound.
This has been my experience. I have owned guitars with metal and guitars with wood necks. Both are a pain to keep in tune outdoors, but the metal neck was more trouble. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 5:19 pm
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| John, your question doesn't make sense to us. Tone is totally subjective to personal preference. The neck on a steel guitar has extremely little to do with sustain. |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 8 Jun 2007 11:21 pm
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I think it's a valid question.
Both my steels have metal necks. I haven't played alot of steels, but on two occasions I played wood neck models of the same steel, and their sustain was dramatically improved. I can't say if it's coincidental, but I thought it was interesting.
-John |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 6:37 am
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John,
I think you have too many variables in the equation to attribute the difference solely to the neck.  |
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Stan Paxton
From:
1/2 & 1/2 Florida and Tenn, USA (old Missouri boy gone South)
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 8:58 am
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Bro Erv, would have to say you are right; too many variables, and most is stuff I don't understand. Example: I have all wood guitar (metal neck) wonderful tone and sustain; also now have a mica guitar of same brand with the Tommy Young mod, with far more sustain. I don't understand it; but on the other hand, what does that have to do with wood neck (got carried away) 
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Mullen Lacquer SD 10, 3 & 5; Mullen Mica S 10 1/2 pad, 3 & 5; BJS Bars; LTD400, Nashville 112, DD-3, RV-3, Hilton VP . -- Gold Tone PBS sq neck; Wechter Scheerhorn sq neck. -- "Experience is the thing you have left when everything else is gone." -anon.- |
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Dennis Schell
From:
Shingletown, Shasta county, Kalifornia
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 11:53 am Out of "left field"?
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Usually the metal neck just fits around the changer and the key head just fits over the neck with no direct attachment. |
Exactly....
And generally, the nut/rollers are a separate part too and not incorporated into the neck. Bottom line, I can't see how a metal neck can have much of an effect on sustain since the strings have no "solid" contact with it at either end. For the most part, the "neck" is nothing more than a place to mount the fretboard. (And I've seen guitars that don't even do that, the fretboard is mounted directly on the body!)
IMHO, the wood used for the body is the key element in sustain (just like any other guitar) and a covering of formica over the wood "may" have an effect too...
JMO, and we know what opinions resemble!
Dennis
FWIW, I'd like to see an experiment with a piece of thin aluminum on a wood neck that surrounds only the pickup for an inch or so....I have a theory that aluminum necks may affect the sound "electrically" rather than "acoustically". Another experiment might be to unattach the aluminum neck and see how the guitar sounds without it....
(Have I taken my meds today?!? )
_________________
"Bucks Owin"
Last edited by Dennis Schell on 9 Jun 2007 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 12:04 pm necks
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| I think a lot more things will affect the guitars tone than the neck itself. Type of pick ups is one thing I look at along with the way the changer is built and mounted. The guitar cabinet and the way the neck is mounted with the correct amount of pressure from the screws that hold it in place, as well as, the correct wiring on a guitar. So many things here, it would probably take a while to list. I tell folks to just stick with a name brand guitar and that way, whether it's a wood neck or aluminum, it won't really matter. It's the quality that counts. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 12:19 pm
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| Another experiment might be to unattach the aluminum neck and see how the guitar sounds without it.... |
I may be mistaken, but I think Bobbe Seymour has posted in the past that he has performed that experiment, and that it didn't make any difference.
I would theorize that if the neck was going to make any difference, it would have to do with how it, being attached along a significant portion of the body length, affects the body's ability to resonate. But there, of course, there are contrasting theories that body resonance either helps or hinders tone and/or sustain, and other theories that body resonance is a negligible factor in any PSG anyway! |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 9 Jun 2007 2:36 pm
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It's my understanding that the difference in tone between a wood neck and a metal neck is not so much due to the material of the neck, but rather to the differences in the way the changers attach to the body.
At least it's that way in ProII vs ProIII, or a metal vs wood neck SuperPro.
I would imagine the same would apply to a p/p, since the wood neck p/p's have bolt-on changers, while the metal neck gtrs (most of them anyway)are cut-tails.
As far as best...who's to say? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2007 5:37 am
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I think a greater difference can be attributed to how the pickup is mounted.
On some guitars it is attached to the body of the guitar while on others, the pickup is attached to the neck.
I think that is why there is SO much importance given to the tightness of the screws holding the neck down on an Emmons p/p. In the case of this guitar, the pickup is attached to the neck and not the body of the guitar. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2007 6:36 am
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| One of the biggest differences in the wood vs. metal discussion, IMHO, is how much of the neck is contacting the cabinet. Generally speaking metal necks are hollow and consequently have very little of the neck contacting the cabinet whereas most wood necks are solid and have a relatively large surface area contacting the cabinet- "clamping" to the cabinet and one could make a case for them to be absorbing more of the cabinet vibrations than would an aluminum neck. Paul Franklin Sr. told me once that a guitar with no neck and the same guitar with an aluminum neck will sound the same but putting a wooden neck on that same guitar will change the sound. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 10 Jun 2007 12:10 pm
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Jim P's points get to the meat of the problem. Erv's comments about the different ways the changer is attached on Emmons p/ps also seems relevant. It is fairly well known that the tightness of the aluminum neck to the body matters on a p/p. For that reason I have always wondered why a wood neck p/p wouldn't suffer some tone degredation. But maybe the bolt on changer fixes that somehow. At any rate, I have never heard the aluminum vs. wood neck tone differences addressed for Emmons p/ps. The question of how the pickup is attached, is very unclear to me. Pickups are generally loosely attached with limber springs holding them in place. And for that matter, you can hand-hold a pickup over the strings and get a good signal. So any rules associating tone with pickup attachment are very unclear to me.
And, as I recall, Bobbe's comments only applied to the Sho-Bud SuperPro. When they were first building it, they wondered if the neck had something to do with the tonal differences between the SuperPro and the previous Pro models. So they left the neck off and found that the tonal difference was still there, and the neck had no effect. I don't think Bobbe would go from that to say that the neck has no effect on tone on other pedal steels. |
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