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Topic: 60 db ??? |
Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 2:32 pm |
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I need to vent... to you my friends in lap steel land.
For the past few months I have been going out at lunch time and playing my lap steel in public. I play to background trax through a VOX DA5 (A small 5 watt battery powered amp)
I have even considered getting a bigger VOX amp having read a recent post here on the forum about the larger battery powered models.
Well today as I was playing about a half hour into my mini concert, A police officer pulled up in his squad car and I was told to stop playing.
He had received a complaint from a resident. (there are three story appartrments a few hundred feet away from where I play)
The cop said they wouldn't bother me normally, but when they get a complaint they have to respond.
He said the maximum level allowed for music in that area is 60db... that's really quiet! My stomach growls louder than that sometimes.
I am very dissapointed, but I will obey the law.
(Hmmm a 5 watt amp is too loud?) Thanks for lending an ear, have any of you had a similar experience?
Thanks
Dom Franco  |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 3:45 pm
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Where were you playing? Was it in an office complex, park or other public area?
It's quite possible that somebody didn't like your sound intruding on their enjoyment of shared public space.
Many years ago my friends and I were having a jam session in an apartment with all acoustic instruments. The police responded to a complaint and we had to stop.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 3:53 pm Ahhh, but...
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It's only 60 decibels, but it looks like it's probably 30,000 micropascals! It's those wascally micwo-pascals!
Actually, "activities in a business office" is considered quieter. I don't know what biz office they use as a reference, but the ones I've worked in were pretty damn noisy.
60dB is totally stupid. The cars driving by make more noise. I know in MY case though, the complaints wouldn't be about the volume...
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 4:22 pm
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| Dom- How do you know you were over 60 db. Did they have a meter? I'd look into the actual wording of the law. It's probably 60db measured at some specified diastance away. |
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Gary Lynch
From:
Creston, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 4:33 pm
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| In most cities, construction noise is allowed between the hours of 7:00AM and 7:00PM. Just for kicks I'd check the law that the city has on the books and discuss it with someone who actually knows its intent and how they would measure the level legally. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 5:07 pm
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Dom,
My advice would be to read the noise ordinance.
Noise during the day at that level does no harm. It is another thing after 10 p.m.
I will bet you have not broken the law, period.
Just because there is a complaint does not mean they can shut you down especially during the day time. Noise is expected. Again, at night that is another thing.
Aloha, 
Don |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 5:21 pm
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Thanks for the replies.
The VOX DA5 is a pretty loud little amp. When I get home to my studio I am going to check out the DB level that I was playing at. (I have a trusty radio shack db meter).
I have been playing at the same place for many weeks with no complaints... I picture an old lady who is lonely & disgruntled and just wanting to complain about everything. The weather is warm now and many people have their windows open. But still...
I may bring my resonator down there next time.
Dom |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 8:22 pm
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I found a proposed ordinance that reflects what the OP was told:
As of August 2006 here is the applicable section of the proposed ordinance:
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8.24.025 Prohibition.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to create, assist in creating, permit, continue or permit the continuance of any noise nuisance that, when measured:
1. Exceeds sixty (60) dBA between the hours of seven a.m. and ten p.m. the same day, or... |
The entire text is here.
The link to the current code is here.
Here is the applicable section of the current code:
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It is unlawful for any person to make, continue or cause to be made or continued, any noise which unreasonably annoys, disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of any person of normal sensitivity in a noise sensitive unit. The standard which shall be utilized in determining whether a violation of the provisions of this chapter exists shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
A. The volume of the noise;
B. The intensity of the noise;
C. Whether the nature of the noise is usual or unusual;
D. Whether the origin of the noise is natural or unnatural;
E. The volume and intensity of the background noise, if any;
F. Whether the noise is plainly audible within a noise sensitive unit;
G. The nature and zoning of the area within which the noise emanates;
H. The density of the inhabitation of the area within which the noise emanates;
I. The time of day or night the noise occurs;
J. The duration of the noise;
K. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent, or constant. |
In particular:
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| B. Radios, Phonographs, Etc. The using, operation or permitting to be used, played or operated any radio receiving set, television set, musical instrument, phonograph, compact disc player, loudspeaker or other machine or device, for the production or reproduction of sound between the hours of ten p.m. and seven a.m. in such a manner as to be plainly audible upon a public street or within a noise sensitive unit which is not the source of sound; |
Perhaps the linked pages are out of date and the proposed ordinance has been adopted. In any case 60dBA seems to be a ridiculous standard outside of a library.
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Lynn Oliver
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Kay Das
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 9:01 pm
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The decibel or dB is a relative measure and the dBA is a frequency weighted ratio of the target sound compared to a reference level. As Steiner's diagram shows, a reference level of a quiet area is of the order of 40 dBspl. So the fuzz may have been referring to a sound level of 60dB above that of a quiet area.
No way could you have, even downhil and downwind, generated sound at 100dBspl (comparable to a disco)!
Maybe your neighbors do not like lap steel music...in which case it may be time to investigate another neighborhood!
But then again, "music hath charms to soothe the savage beast"....eventually... |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jun 2007 10:37 pm
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| Kay Das wrote: |
| The decibel or dB is a relative measure and the dBA is a frequency weighted ratio of the target sound compared to a reference level... |
When giving the loudness of a single sound rather than a ratio, a reference must be chosen, whether you are using dB or dBA. dBA differs from dB by being frequency weighted to approximate human hearing (inverse of the loudness curve).
The most common reference in air is 20 micropascals, or approximately the limit of sensitivity of the human ear.
If you read the statute it specifies:
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| "dBA or decibel” means the weighted sound pressure level, measured by the use of an A-weighted sound level meter. |
That would be relative to the standard reference, not to some arbititrary quiet area standard.
I've written to the authors of the bill asking how the standard was chosen and how it could be enforced against a background of perhaps 75dB from traffic noise. |
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Paul Osbty
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2007 1:58 pm Re: 60 db ???
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
| For the past few months I have been going out at lunch time and playing my lap steel in public. |
Maybe this is the problem. EVERY DAY the person, who made the complaint, has to listen to this.
It would start to annoy me, too. |
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Ben Sims
From:
New Mexico
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Posted 13 Jun 2007 5:34 pm
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| There's nothing wrong with taking a chance on something like this. But in a public space, there's always some give and take, and one person's pleasant music can be another's annoying noise pollution. And steel guitar can frankly be a polarizing instrument in that respect, much as we all personally love it. Also, playing with an amplifier in a public space can be tricky - they can be very directional and sound can carry a long ways under certain conditions. It's probably a safer bet to play an acoustic instrument. But maybe you just need to move to a park in a more steel-guitar friendly neighborhood! |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 14 Jun 2007 7:39 am Thanks Paul....
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Wow I never thought of that! Even though I have a large repertoire, to someone hearing it often enough it would get old.
I just need to find new places to play and rotate locations often.
This Forum is great! a wealth of wisdom.
Dom |
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Gary Lynch
From:
Creston, California, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2007 8:06 am
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"I just need to find new places to play and rotate locations often."
A great idea. Spread the joy around a little. |
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How can a DA5 get loud enough o piss someone off?