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Topic: 7 strings C6 + A7 vs C6 + Bb |
KarlKoch
From:
Cathedral City, California, USA
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Posted 25 May 2007 3:57 pm |
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| I built a seven string guitar. Not bad, and maybe I can post pics later. But what to do with that extra bass string? I have the Jerry Byrd course and have been messing with the C6 (135613) + A7 tuning (7th string to C#) but it's not floating my boat. I started just lowering it to Bb and having a dom7 right there. I like it o.k.; I can do a Memphis vamp with it almost like on the pedal steel, and get some other good sounds. Am I missing something not using the Jerry Byrd idea? I like what I'm doing but it seems too simple. By the way, what would you call that tuning (7b,1,3,5,6,1,3)? |
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KarlKoch
From:
Cathedral City, California, USA
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Posted 25 May 2007 4:08 pm
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| I may be listing the scale degrees backwards, but left to right = bass to treble |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 25 May 2007 4:47 pm
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I'll take a stab at it ...
First ... the tuning with the Bb ...
(hi to lo) E C A G E C Bb
Would be called a C13 tuning ... very popular in Hawaii.
JB's C6/A7 ... would have the C# at the 6th string position and the C at the 7th string.
(hi to lo) E C A G E C# C
On an 8 stringer ... put a low A at position 8.
Having done a fair amount of study ... I will venture to say that JB's C6/A7 tuning is much more about "partial chords" ... than it is about full chords.
Incorporating forward, reverse and split slants ... to obtain pieces of complex chords ... is the key to understanding JB's work.
Keeping the melody note on strings 1 & 2 ... sometimes 3 ... and using the remainder to embellish harmony with ... is the main goal of this tuning.
Having that C# there ... on the 6th string ... offers an array of "partial chords" that are not present with just the C there.
It's all how you look at the neck ...
I broke down the major Hawaiian tunings a few years ago ... to show the number of available two and three note combinations ... and the C6/A7 with appropriate forward, reverse and split slant maneuvers ... offered up many more possibilities than any others.
Without the slanting though ... the number drastically decreases.
Take a look:
http://www.horseshoemagnets.com/_sgg/m8_1.htm
Hope that helps (or makes any sense) ...  |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 May 2007 10:52 pm
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Rick; This is my 10-str. C6/A7 tuning expanded a little and provides some more familiar sounds! Lo-A~C~C#~E~G~A~C~E~B~D Any thoughts on this arrangement? It's like playing an 8-str. with more possibilities! This is just 1/3 of the expansions I've incorporated on my Triple–10 non-pedal guitar!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 26 May 2007 4:26 am
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"Big John" ... hmmm, the PSG "chromatic strings" approach
Guys like you and Ray Montee ... are the ones needed here to elaborate on that C# ... further.
Ray can make a 6 stringer sound "huge" with that tuning ...
Personally ... I only play 6 strings ... so having that C# offers up three major advantages ... that I can't do without.
1) The "Big" Dom 7 chord on strings 6,5,4 & 3.
EX: Key of F
| Tab: |
E --------------------------
C ------------ 4 ---- 5 ----
A ----- 3 ------------------
G ----- 3 ---- 5 ---- 5 ----
E ---- 3 ---- 6 ---- 5 ----
C# ---- 3 ------------------
C7 C7 F |
2) The Minor/Major Tenth Interval forward slant runs ...
EX: Key of F ...
| Tab: |
E --- 1 --- 3 --- 5 --- 6 --- 8 --- 10 --- 12 --- 13 -
C ----------------------------------------------------
A ----------------------------------------------------
G ----------------------------------------------------
E ---------------------------------------------------
C# -- 1 --- 3 --- 4 --- 6 --- 8 ---- 9 --- 11 --- 13 -
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3) Harmonizing the 5th string (for bassy runs) w Minor/Major Third forward slants
EX: Key of F
| Tab: |
E ----------------------------------------------------
C ----------------------------------------------------
A ----------------------------------------------------
G ----------------------------------------------------
E -- 1 --- 3 --- 5 --- 6 --- 8 --- 10 --- 12 --- 13
C# -- 1 --- 3 --- 4 --- 6 --- 8 ---- 9 --- 11 --- 13 -
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But as stated earlier ... I "see" the fretboard as a series of interconnecting intervals ... not really as a "one particular fret is the Home Base tonic chord".
That said ...
When I get a chance to "jam" with folks who play 12 bar blues stuff ... I have to think of this tuning as A7/Am7 ...
EX: Fret 3 ... would be my C7/Cm7 home base. |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 26 May 2007 6:54 am 7 Strings
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Karl -- there a TON of great ideas here posted above. Personally, I like that really FAT root on the bottom, so I tune my 7-stringer (hi-lo):
E-C-A-G-E-C-C
That lowest C is an octave below the 6th string C. Of course, I'm not taking advantage of the alternate tunings I could use this string for, as in the other posts, but I love that giant bass note for certain chords, and it makes a cool device for octave doubling stuff.
Another thing I sometimes like to do for blues is to re-tune the lowest C to A, the octave (sting 6) C to C#, and string 2 also to C#. This give me a nice, big fat A7 chord. Even with just six stings, I'll re-tune that low C to C#, and have an A7 with no root, and it's still great for blues.
Have fun and good luck!
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 27 May 2007 12:18 am Another Option
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Knowing that you're really not suppose to go above an E on the Byrd tuning, I just couldn't help myself and put my old, reliable G up on top. I actually use an 8 string with both the C and C# on bottom but given a choice, I'd keep the C# and my high G.
I play a lot of swing and Big Band and that G just opens up so much high melody for me.
FWIW, Paul |
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KarlKoch
From:
Cathedral City, California, USA
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Posted 29 May 2007 7:15 am
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| Thanks everyone. I just spent my break looking at Rick's site. I'll be getting alot out of it. -Karl |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 30 May 2007 11:35 pm
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PSG chromatic strings approach?!  Let me see now E-C-A-G-E-{C#-C}-A. Don't the notes in brackets look like a chromatic string sequence? I think that Jerry Byrd invented the chromatic string approach, myself.  Although I suppose its use on the higher strings has been more commonly used on pedal guitars.  |
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Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 31 May 2007 3:32 am
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| I play C# E G A C E (low to high) on a 6-string. Always thought a 7th string underneath would be useful as an A. Root for big majors, sevenths and minor chords. |
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