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Topic: Occasional Dobro? |
Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 8:47 am |
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| I'm waiting for my Regal dobro to arrive (Thanks for the advice, guys!). I've never played dobro before and will probably only be using it for the occasional number to vary the sound - playing C6 lapsteel the rest of the time. Some of you guys may have been in the same situation - did you learn to play all over again in dobro G tuning, or do you play in the same tuning as your steel so you can easily find your way around? I've only got one brain... |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 8:55 am
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I keep my Gold Tone Mahogony Reso tuned to C6. It sounds great even with a .36 for the sixth string. There's enough downward string pressure to activate the cone just fine.
I can never get anything out of the traditional GBDGBD Dobro tuning. Every so often I'll try to do something in this tuning and all I get are very major sounding Country and Bluegrass sounds. I then go back to C6.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 9:59 am
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| For the sake of variety, you may want to use the "blue" sound of the Dobro -- 7ths instead of 6ths -- as a contrast to your swingin' lap steel tuning. Instead of bluegrass hi-bass G, you might want to try lo-bass G. From there you can very quickly retune to open DADF#AD or DADF#BD (Bm7/D6 is the proper name, I think?) |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 10:46 am
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| Play'em both!(C6 & G)...and buy a second one.Both tunings are worth it. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 20 Jun 2005 11:02 am
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| or tune it L>H.....G B E G B D for a G6...choke the E to an F for a dom7. |
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Webb Kline
From:
Orangeville, PA
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:04 am
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| Gerald, What combination do you use for your C6 tuning? |
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Ric Nelson
From:
Silver Spring, Maryland
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:22 am
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I agree, stay away from G tuning for you'll get so much more out of it if you do. It's a shame that the world associates G tuning and the dobro.
What the new thing to learn is that the dobro will not sistain like the lap steel and you'll have to adapt your style to that feature. I guess you'll select a tuning that goes with the songs that you have in mind to play it on.
Ric |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:52 am
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I did have low-bass G on mine, then switched it over to C6. Made all the difference in the world for what I'm playing on it (old-time swing, Hawaiian). I can easily retune to A6 or B11 if needed, too.
However, that advice of have two of 'em is something I'm going to consider. I'm curious about these Gold-Tone/Beard resos. I don't need Holy Grail of Tone, just usable, well-built and good, decent tone for not a whole lot-O-money.
TJW
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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G); Regal resonator (open D or G)
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 6:32 am
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Todd,
Instead of having multiple instruments, have you ever considered installing a Hipshot Trilogy changer? They make a resophonic model. I have one on order and plan to install it on my Regal.
Erv |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 6:57 am
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Your tuning should be chosen based on what style / songs you are doing.
For most Bluegrass, and a lot of Country use G, to sound like Jerry D. in many AKUS songs use open D, Bluesy - E or E7, Swing - C6, etc.....
You can approximate different styles on tunings that are not their standard, but that's only approximating.
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 3:20 pm
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IMHO:
I'm a bit perplexed to hear so many mentions of a 6th tuning being a "western swing" &/or "Hawaiian" sound, ...and other tunings being "bluesy" &/or "Dom7" &/or "bluesy minor", etc. It just ain't fully so in the capabilities afforded by the 6th tuning (and 13th tuning ... voila Tom Morrel and Jr. Brown et al).
Last night a few of us sat down for some very casual picking under the back lanai palm tree and full moon. Just as I got my MOTS Maggie plugged in, a geetar picker was playing the "La Grange" rythm lick on a resonator guitar. I selected a hot setting on my Roland Micro Cube and lit into some slide and Gibbons' La Grange licks on the Steel. A Steeler commented, "sh_t ...what tuning are you using, open E?" I said no, still C6. He said "how do you get those licks out of C6?" Perlexed at the question, I said if you skip the 6th note you have a triad tuning well suited to most triad tuning licks, particularly when you undestand the voicings / lick patterns transposed along the 3 octaves of the fretboard, ...plus the 6th note gives you more voicings than a "simple" open triad tuning; Such as Dom7, min7 and min7b6 licks blues are fraught with, ...and all the notes of all the church modes which almost all music west of Rome is based upon.
I had the geetar picker play a "Tush" rythm to demonstrate those and other familiar triad slide licks simply by omitting the 6th note string, along with adding some additional licks the 6th note string affords. I then played some funky blues rythms and licks, reitterating that most of the patterns in our spanish guitar licks are patterns derived from and extensions of the chord finger patterns we use, ....which stands to reason that we do the same thing on a Steel that's simply open tuned to what would be a finger position on spanish guitar, ...transposed in familiar lick patterns all along the fretboard just like the spanish guitar, ...if we spend some nominal time looking for them.
True, ...the 6th tuning is EAR-familiar associated with western swing and Hawaiian music, ...but ONLY because so many people have used it in those styles and relatively few people have used it in many other styles it affords. BUT mechanically / musically, the 6th tuning IS NOT restricted to ANY style by any means, but affords any style of music if a Player will go seek and find what's there rather than relying upon old favorite lick patterns of other tunings (although many if not most of those licks MUST be on the 6th tuning as well since it's just a triad tuning with a 6th note added, and affords all notes of all modes in any key and most lick positions somehwhere in the transposition patterns along the fretboard).
A shortcut I "had" to use to adujust the fingers, eyes and brain to recognize what triad stuff is on the 6th tuned neck (teaching them how to disregard the 6th note string in that search), ...was to capture the 6th note string mid-fretboard and pull it slightly down and dead with a length of tape secured around both sides of & onto the back of the neck (taking that string away from the tone-bar and out of commission which the picking fingers will rather quickly recognize and remember).
Modifying ANY of the triad tunings to include the 6th note in the tuning, is as simple as putting the 6th tuning in the middle and omitting the highest or lowest note from those other tunings ...or better yet, obtaining an extra instrument with extra strings and adding the full 6th tuning in the middle with whatever other triad tuning voices a person might desire on the bottom or top of the 6th tuning (low bass G6 or dropped-open D6 for example).
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 23 June 2005 at 01:45 PM.] |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 4:01 pm
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Denny, I have a lot of respect for you and what you are doing, but I still believe differnet tunings just work better with different styles, IMO .
If we applied your logic to any single tuning, not necessiarly a 6th tuning, wouldn't it be true that you could play any style on it?
If you develop a great understanding of any tuning, how it relates to scales and modes, the notes are all there for any style you choose to play.
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 5:30 pm
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Well, I sort of agree with both Joey and Denny. To take full advantage of the open strings for the hammer-ons and pull-offs people expect from a Dobro for bluegrass and blues, you need the right tuning for the key. I have seen pictures of Jerry Douglas on stage with four to six Dobros in different tunings, so he can match the key the singers want and still have the right open strings. If you only have one instrument, G is by far the best for the bluegrass keys. Brother Oswald and Josh Graves were both banjo open G players before taking up the Dobro. E is the best for blues, because so many guitar band blues tunes are done in E or A (A is also a good key, depending on which key your band plays most in). G is a good compromise for both bluegrass and blues, if you have a capo to take it to A for blues.
Having said that, for almost any other kind of music, a 6th tuning (C6 or A6) is the most versatile. As Denny points out, you can skip the 6th or use it. It is invaluable for getting the relative minor.
Since Tony is already a proficient 6th neck player, and he didn't say he wanted to play bluegrass or blues, he might be happiest with the same tuning on the Dobro he uses on lap steel. There seems to be no reason for him to go to any other tuning, unless he tries his 6th tuning with the Dobro and it doesn't work for the songs he wants to play Dobro on. |
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Steve Pierce
From:
San Rafael, California, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2005 8:56 pm
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Hey All,
The G6 tuning Howard mentioned is worth checking out. You can use regular G tuning strings and it's real easy to switch back and forth between GBDGBD and GBEGBD.
The C6 licks basically work the same, but you also get those open G licks too with the 135 on the high strings.
Although if you have C6 guage strings on there, then you have have many tunings just a few twists away.
I think it's worth trying both. You may find that the tone is nicer one way versus the other.
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Steve Pierce |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 12:32 am
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Joey (and All),
You are quite right, and Thank You for expounding. In my haste and zeal I didn't even mention how much a particular tuning means in it's own contexts. I could have also said that indeed there are some licks that simply cannot be achieved without the specific tuning that makes them possible. ...Although that still doesn't stop someone from adding a 6th note / string to the tuning to get the best of both worlds.
I think the original question and subsequent thought-train was what might be best to start "dobro" with.
The point I was trying to make is that the 6th tuning is NOT "restricted" to particular styles of playing, as is commonly thought / said / mentioned, ...but is indeed very good for resonator (and most) styles. It not only has many (if not most) triad tunings' licks in it, but affords a barn door into the music cosmos, that more-simple triad tunings don't.
It was also my erroneous bias 6 years ago that a 6th tuning is more for western swing and Hawaiian styles, ...and doesn't lend well to other styles. Hearing others express that bias, ...I can't help but think a commensurate number of Pickers don't more-fully realize what is afforded by the / a 6th tuning, ...and I highly suggest (with the best intentions) that they should. Although I rather regularly discover I'm a bigger bozo & beginner than I realize sometimes; ...I had reasonably studied and played professionally for 40 years before studying & learning the broader sense of what the 6th tuning affords; And I've learned and played MUCH more and more-fluidly, in all styles, in the subsequent last 6 years than in the previous 40 years! And if it can do so much for such a Bozo, ...then I feel it worth mentioning with that zeal !
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 23 June 2005 at 01:46 PM.] |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 3:42 am
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With some people, I would mention Zest.....  |
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Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 4:20 am
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| Thanks everyone, for the advice. Since I first asked the question, the Regal has arrived and on first reaction sounds good. The strings are very dull, and I'll replace those straight away. It came with some basic instructional material in G tuning so maybe I'll work through a little of that first. But I've just watched a couple of clips of Jerry Douglas with Alison Krauss, and read that for a lot of her material he uses DADF#AD tuning. This is the stuff I love! I don't see myself playing much bluegrass or blues, just adding tiny licks in vocal numbers. With Alison, Jerry seems to be hardly doing anything, but sounds like heaven! And if I get confused with the G or D tunings, I can go back to the C6 tuning I know, and still have the dobro tone. Thanks again. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 5:20 am
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I have two excellent Gold Tones as my working guitars, one mahogany and one maple, both with Fishman passive transducers. I do have some pre-war dobros but don't like to take the vintage stuff to gigs.
My tunings are basically G major (standard GBDGBD) and G6 (BDEGBD). On the G6 I omit the low G note when playing amplified because 1) I like and use the close interval of the B-D-E notes, and 2), the low G generally gets lost in the band mix.
My experience with C6 on reso is that the string tensions don't excite the resonator enough to get the volume I like. The dobro likes to be pitched lower, anyway, IMHO.
In the Hank Williams play I'm doing right now, I'm required to play Delta blues style on two tunes. For that purpose, I retune the straight G Gold Tone to E7 (EBDG#BE). It's a quick retune that the strings can handle easily.
Josh Graves also used D tuning (DADF#AD) for blues and I've got an older dobro tuned like that as well. I think Jerry D also uses that tuning occasionally.
The straight G tuning is not just for bluegrass. Country songs lay fine on that tuning with slant bar technique. b0b handles my dobro instructional material in his catalog, as do I. (please excuse the commercial pitch  )
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 22 June 2005 at 06:21 AM.] |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 5:38 am
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On the two Dobro track, I feel that I can comfortably use standard "G" reso gages for all these tunings on a squareneck guitar...
lo-bass G
open D
D6/Bm7
hi-bass "bluegrass" G
...and switch among the first three very quickly. Moving to the fourth is a big jump, and usually requires some considerable tweaking of all the strings, as it changes tension on the cone & neck a lot.
But these gages don't work all that well for close interval tunings, some that Herb Steiner described...
G6th w/o bass root - BDEGBD
E7 - BDEG#BE
C6th - CEGACE
...so that's where the second Dobro with different string gages would be handy. I have been meaning to put lighter/closer gages on my Johnson tricone to see how it sounds with that second batch of tunings. [This message was edited by D Schubert on 22 June 2005 at 06:58 AM.] |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 5:59 am
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I see another forumite who uses the Gold Tone resos. You all have me now thinking that I really need to find one of these to try, or maybe even just roll the dice, an order one!
By the way Herb, very impressive discography you got there! Wow!
Hmmmmmm...
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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G); Regal resonator (open D or G)
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 8:58 am
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| Quote: |
| And if I get confused with the G or D tunings |
The neat thing is that they share the same interval relationship from the second string down. Whatever you play on or begining on the 1st string in G, translates to the 2nd string on the D tuning. The licks and patterns are the same. |
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Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 9:05 am
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| Ah! That's how they can swap tunings so easily! |
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Chris Morrison
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 10:21 am
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| Hi, fyi, there are two Goldtone reso versions (each of which can be had in mahogany or maple): Goldtone, and Goldtone/Beard, which are regular Goldtone but with Paul Beard critical parts (cone, spider, etc.) I have a GT/B, and it's really nice (I haven't tried a "regular" goldtone...) GT/B mahogany goes for about $525 (case extra)... see http://www.beardguitars.com/standard.html HTH, Chris |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2005 1:13 pm
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| Quote: |
| Jerry Douglas with Alison Krauss, .... This is the stuff I love! |
Now THERE is the heart & key answer! "Everything" outside what we love is peripheral (IMHO). But I've sure saved the link to this discussion's very good info! 
Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 June 2005 at 02:14 PM.] |
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